NORFOLK
Doris and Junious Jackson like to shop at MacArthur Center, but the Chesapeake couple avoid the downtown mall toward the later hours, knowing that teenagers will start gathering.
"I think a lot of adults are afraid to come here in the evening. A lot of these kids are scary," said Doris Jackson, a 79-year-old great-grandmother, while shopping at the mall Thursday. "If we're here, we get the heck out when we see them coming."
The Jacksons are among those in Hampton Roads who applaud MacArthur Center's plan to implement more restrictions on teens. A new policy, starting Oct. 19, will require shoppers younger than 18 to have a "supervising adult" at least age 21 with them if they come to the mall after 5 p.m.
"It's nice to get rid of the roving band of ne'er-do-wells, and I think their shoplifting rate will go down because of it," said Calvin Swanson, a Norfolk resident who said he doesn't shop frequently at MacArthur Center.
Since mall officials announced the policy early this week, local teens have rallied in opposition, encouraging MacArthur Center boycotts and a sit-in on the Facebook social-networking Web site.
Supporters of the policy also have spoken up, many of them criticizing teen behavior at the mall.
Most shoppers who welcomed the policy Thursday said they hadn't witnessed or experienced specific incidents involving teens at MacArthur Center. They just believed that groups of youngsters hanging around without spending money could cause problems.
"You just don't know what's going to happen," Jackson said. "A lot of the kids coming here are looking for trouble."
Many who have sent e-mails and called The Virginian-Pilot and posted online comments in response to news stories about MacArthur Center's new policy cited teens spouting obscenities, blocking the mall's corridors and stairways and otherwise behaving disrespectfully.
Crime statistics provided by Norfolk police for MacArthur Center showed 99 reported crimes from October 2008 to September 2009 - 55 were shoplifting and 41 were other types of theft.
The reports included one robbery and two aggravated assaults.
"The numbers aren't that bad," said Master Police Officer Chris Amos, department spokesman.
"Minimal, minimal, other than shoplifting."
Still, the perception of danger can be strong when customers confront loitering groups of young people, said Amos, who for years worked off-duty at the Norfolk mall now called The Gallery at Military Circle.
And police don't necessarily hear about actions taken by the mall's private security staff.
"If there's a problem and they handle it, we would never know," Amos said.
Employees of some MacArthur Center retailers that cater to teens said they have seen no trouble from them. Many are customers willing to spend, the workers said.
"It's definitely going to bring down business," Emily Mathis, 17, said of the new policy as she rang up shoppers' purchases at the Forever 21 clothing store.
Mathis will face the new rules when she leaves work, and she often comes to the mall on her days off, she said.
"I don't really know why they're doing it," said her co-worker, Christine Guynn, 20. "They haven't told us."
Officials at several teen-oriented retailers have not returned calls seeking comment on the policy. Abercrombie & Fitch declined to comment.
Miranda Taylor worked for the Express clothing store at Triangle Town Center in Raleigh, N.C., a year ago, when that mall began requiring a parent or guardian to accompany shoppers younger than 18 after 5 p.m. Fridays and Saturdays.
The policy turned the public's attention to the potential for safety problems, said Taylor, who manages a MacArthur Center store but said she couldn't comment on behalf of her current employer.
"Business declined dramatically" after the change in Raleigh, she recalled. "No longer did you have the traffic in the mall because no one felt safe."
Jim Wofford, MacArthur Center's general manager, said he has no intention of dropping or changing the new rules. He emphasized that they aim to prevent problems before they happen. "Everyone's not going to embrace it," he said. "But we feel very positive about what we're doing."
In 1995, Patrick Henry Mall in Newport News instituted a teen ban after 6 p.m. Fridays and Saturdays.
The mall dropped the policy eight weeks later, after church and school groups protested and local teens offered their own plan to address safety issues in that mall.
Guynn, at Forever 21, said she expects MacArthur Center's policy won't last.
"I think they'll try it," she said, "and then they'll realize they made a mistake."
Pilot writer Matthew Bowers contributed to this report.
Carolyn Shapiro, (757) 446-2270, carolyn.shapiro@pilotonline.com
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Lack of Responsible Adults Part of the Problem
It appears responsible adults have abandoned the mall to those who do not think they are responsible for themselves, their actions, and conduct. When responsible adults flee riff-raft fills the vacuum and no number of police or security officers can effectively deal the problems created. The mall should only be open when responsible adults are willing to be there.
Sad
This story really upsets me because when I graduated high and for the first few months in college, I was 17. I don't see how I could be a college freshman, working two jobs (one full time and one part time) (who never got into any trouble, never a speeding ticket, etc...) and still need my parents to walk me around the mall.
If there are a bunch of teenagers not doing what they're suppose to, take care of it. Make them leave, don't make everyone.
some of you
Some of you are trying to make it sound like these sweet kids spend thousands of dollars weekly at mall stores. Now we adults do know better than that! Some of you parents think your sweet innocents don't have foul mouths and aren't abusive to seniors and others who just want to shop and have a pleasant safe time. Now we adults do know better than that also. Some of you parents seem to think it's easier to have the mall play parent than you. And we adults can see what is happening there too. Time to man up parents and be just that and perhaps there wouldn't be any problem, now and even in your kid's future.
I Stopped Shopping at MacArthur Mall
I stopped shopping at MacArthur Mall in the evenings a long time ago. I got tired of groups of poorly behaved teenagers traveling the mall in large groups, using profanity loudly, being rowdy, almost knocking people over. They walk in a pack, often glaring at people to get out of their way, and they will knock you over if you don't jump out of their way, even if they are walking on the wrong side of the hallway, or crazily switch sides without any forwarning. I do feel sorry for those teens who are well-behaved who will lose out -- but shopping at a mall is not a protected right. The piddly amount of money lost by these new rules will be more than made up for when adults with large, fulltime incomes come back to the mall, no longer avoiding it during peak evening hours. Well done, MacArthur Mall!
LAWSUIT HEAVEN!
Where does state law define a “responsible” or “supervising” adult as someone 21 years old? I’m all for increased safety initiatives, but this policy’s refusal to recognize individuals 18-20 years old as “legal” adults and restrict access just because they’re with someone age 17 or under is discriminatory. Private or not, this policy should remain within the confines of the law. Additionally, since the mall is considered private property, what’s going to happen when an increased number of "unsupervised youth" begin congregating at the MacArthur Center Garage owned by the City? And why does the privately owned MacArthur Center enjoy free advertising on the City’s public web site? Seems the private v. public defense only works when convenient. So what’s really going on here?
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!
This is SO SO SO SO STUPID!! I have daughter and my youngest is 16 and the oldes is 19. I often send the oldest to mall with the youngest AND THEY KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE!! If you have teenagers that cant behave..kick them out, call their parents...take care of the situation. I honestly believe thats what SECURITY is for.
So now the kids are kicked out...what's next....THE HOMELESS!!
I honestly feel for the companies you are about to BANKRUPT!!!
congrats
Congrats on raising responsible children. But pa-lease.... pull your head out of the sand. There are a whole lot of garbage in our midst and they are reproducing faster than the responsible ones. You should feel blessed.
My point exactly bulkdredge
Your 19 year old is a legal adult. It's not up to Mr. Wofford to fix the age at 21. Private companies have very deep pockets! Go for it!
ridiculous
Not only are they going to lose an OUTRAGEOUS amount of business, but what about the situation that they are putting norfolk (and other area's) teenagers in? Wouldn't you rather see a bunch of "scary" teenagers walking around a mall late at night where they are watched and policed, where policies enforced that will deter them from doing anything (too) stupid? I would personally much rather deal with "scary" 15 year olds then worry about them creating an even harsher world OUTSIDE the mall's security managed halls.
Granted, not EVERY teen in norfolk spends their time loitering around malls on saturday nights; but they definitely make of the majority of business, especially in stores like Forever 21 and Abercrombie...you don't find many 40 year olds hitting up the latest teeny-boper trends!
Basically, its reverse age discrimination! They are judging EVERY teen based on only a few's looks and attitudes, and its revolting.
I am a teenager...17 years old...responsible, honest, hard working... and not ONCE in my life have I stolen or harassed or agitated anyone, PARTICULARLY elders, in a public place! so HOW can they be allowed to make that decision for me, when I DEFINITELY d
As much as I appreciate your
As much as I appreciate your responsible behavior and I regret that others like yourself may be adversely affected by this ruling, it bears repeating that it is not the mall's responsibility to keep anyone's children "watched and policed"...it is the parent's job to do that. If those same kids CHOOSE to now cause problems out in the parking garage, then the Norfolk police should handle that. And no one should have to tolerate the behavior that exists in certain areas of the mall right now. Accountability for this lies with the parents and the offenders, not with the mall, and not with the people who actually support the mall by shopping.
you people are a trip..
i cant go to after-school programs, because the economy is sour and there isnt any money available...
i cant go home, because my mom is either working 2 jobs or is strung out.. no cable/internet, plus the lights are cut off again.. too depressing..
i cant hang out in the streets, because i'll either get shot, harassed by the police or labeled a thug that sells dope by the "elitists" (even though that might not be the case)... then to make matters worse, the racists/elitists get on blog sites and subliminally call us "scary".. i wonder what they really want to call us..
i can't go to the mall, because i scare the white folks and they assume im there to instigate a fight...
i can't get a job, because guess what, there aren't any jobs available... and for the jobs that are available, the older people get top priority, due to the fact they can't find decent employment, either...
who am i? im a product of my environment.. welcome to the mind of some of today's youth..
another thought-
It's not just white people who are afraid of you. Most black people don't want to be around rudeness and don't want to shop in an intimidating environment, either. So don't assume that everyone who is fed up with bad behavior is white or "elitist" in some way. There's nothing racist about wanting to feel safe.
Are you so academically accomplished...
that you have mastered all of your school subjects that you still have so much free time to just 'hang out' some where? How about the library -- the lights should be on there. Read, read, read then read some more. How do you think you are going to rise above this mess?
Are you so unimaginative that you know nothing about existing community services, probably within walking distance, like tennis courts, basketball courts, soccer fields and rec centers?
Lastly, you've carried your full weight around the house by picking up all your stuff, cutting the grass, trimming the hedges, making your bed, arranging your 'things'...helping your 'strung out' mother manage the household or just preparing yourself for the next day!!
C'mon!! Are you trying ??!!
Discipline is a matter of fortifying potential.
If you find yourself with no money, then the mall is the last place you need to be my friend. All you are doing is looking for trouble and depressing yourself even more by looking at all the things you can't have because, for whatever reason, you haven't earned the luxury of them.
Reality sucks
Welcome to Tidewater... the environment your peers and parents perpetuate. Tiem to suck it up, pull up your pants, and perservere. Stop complaining and start planning for your future, educate yourself, move away and find success in an area that will reward you for your abilities and knowledge.
What a shame...
Youre right
It is unfair to you, as a young person, that the community does not provide resources for you during time out of school. Since your parents apparently don't have the resources to supervise you, there should be community centers or after school programs to serve you, which would benefit all of us in the long run.
But going to the mall and making a point of dressing like a criminal and being loud and rude to other people isn't justified.
When you make a point of dressing and acting like you are part of a criminal gang, of course you scare people. Isn't that the whole reason you act that way? Isn't that what you intend to do?
Maybe you don't go around starting fights, so why dress like people who do?
Thanks for a good
Thanks for a good perspective response.
THOSE THAT SUPPORT THE POLICY - WE MUST UNITE!
What those of us need to do that support this new policy is show up at MacArthur on the night of the 19th and have a "shop in." We can arrive anytime AFTER 5pm. We all need to purchase dinner and do some shopping. Maybe we can all wear green shirts to a)symbolize our united support for the policy; b)symbolize the money that we'll be spending as a result of the new rule; and c) symbolize that we will now 'go' shopping at MacArthur in the evenings.
By the way, I too was one of those good honor roll teens back in the 80's. My parents would be the first to tell you how responsible I was. I was in church every Sunday. You could find me in advanced level math classes during the day. Wednesday nights I volunteered to wash dishes after the church dinner. However, every Friday and Saturday night you could find me hanging around with all of my (equally responsible) obnoxious mob of friends - all of us half drunk at Greenbrier Mall. We all had jobs and some money but spent none at the mall - not even on food.
What time
All these discussions are based on the 5:00 time set by MacArthur Mall. What time do the schools let out whose students frequent the mall? How many students are actually affected by this rule? I just find it hard to believe that kids are coming from VB or Chesapeake to hang out at MacArthur.
So is it targeting the 'thugs' from the local area? Of course. But it's also targeting the goths, grungers, punk rockers, and whiggers. Scary comes in many forms.
The only people complaining
The only people complaining about the curfew, besides whinny teens who've got nothing better to do than hang out there, are the whinny parents who now have to take responsibility for them. The mall is private property and and it has the right to make any rule it sees fit. Now only if the police would take a similar hard-line stance against youth crime instead of wasting time pulling people over for squealing their tires trying to get across all the ridiculous downtown traffic.
Makes no difference
MacArthur is just another one of Norfolk's failing attempts, just like Waterside. It is just a matter of time before most of its residents close shop. You cannot build a mall complex next to huge amounts of section 8 housing and expect no problems. Chesapeake and Virginia Beach know this, life is hard Norfolk, just harder when you make stupid choices. Personally, shopping the internet saves time and money since most stores there are way overpriced. There is always Walmart if you want a dose of screaming toddlers and kids running supervision free down the toy isles, lol.