Most Virginians say they want to close the so-called gun show loophole that permits some gun sales without criminal background checks, and they dislike the notion of someone carrying a concealed firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol, according to a new poll.
The survey, conducted by Christopher Newport University's Judy Ford Wason Center for Public Policy, found that eight of every 10 likely voters interviewed wanted to change a state law that allows someone to buy a firearm from an unlicensed seller at a gun show without first undergoing a criminal background check.
If the same sale is between a buyer and a licensed dealer at a show, a background check is required.
Support for closing the loophole was shared by people of all ages and political and ethnic backgrounds - and in all regions of the state, the poll found.
Almost 17 percent of those polled said they favor keeping the law as it is.
A strong majority of those polled - 68.4 percent - also do not want Virginia to allow people with concealed-weapons permits to bring their firearms into eateries that sell alcohol. More than a quarter of those surveyed - 26.3 percent - disagreed, saying the ban should be lifted.
Earlier this year, the General Assembly passed legislation to legalize the practice but failed to muster the votes to override Gov. Timothy M. Kaine's veto.
In his veto message in March, Kaine noted the objection of law enforcement officials to the bill, saying it "puts the public, the employees and our public safety officers at risk."
However, legislators won a partial victory because they overrode Kaine's veto of a bill - now a state law - that permits retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons in restaurants where alcohol is served.
The gun show loophole has been a divisive issue in this year's governor's race.
State Sen. Creigh Deeds, the Democratic candidate, lost the backing of the National Rifle Association because of his support for requiring the background checks.
Republican candidate Bob McDonnell, who was endorsed by the NRA, opposes closing the loophole.
The survey, which was conducted Oct. 8-13 as part of a joint effort by The Virginian-Pilot, WVEC-TV and CNU, also found that a majority of people want the redrawing of lines for state and federal legislative districts to be done by a bipartisan commission rather than the General Assembly.
About 63 percent of those polled said setting boundaries for General Assembly and congressional districts, which are redrawn every 10 years when a new U.S. census is completed, should be handled by a bipartisan commission. About 22 percent said state legislators should continue to set the boundaries.
The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4 percentage points.
Bill Bartel, (757) 446-2398, bill.bartel@pilotonline.com
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The Moderator writes "-- In
The Moderator writes "-- In response, the questions were were not presented in a way to get a desired result. The point of this poll was to get a sense of public opinion among likely voters in Virginia about these issues. This is straightforward: "Do you think people with concealed-weapons permits should be able to bring their weapons into restaurants that sell alcohol?"
Again sir, with all due respect, the way the results of this poll was written up in the VP is to suggest that the entire commonwealth of Virginia 'feels' the way the the results suggest. If you asked 506 people in Northern VA, then these results would probably be close. However, here in the south and in the southwest and rural areas I believe the results entirely different. This poll as it is presented is a farce.
to all gun advocates
Tell your tale to the many families who have lost a child because the "responsible gun owner" left a loaded gun lying around the house, and their child ended up killing himself or another child.
While the Death of Any child is tragic...
Your own attempted sarcasm belies your point.
If a parent leaves a gun accessible to a child, they aren't really a responsible gun owner, now are they?
Thankfully, the evidence shows that those irresponsible gun owners are few and far between. The number of children killed in firearms related accidents (102 in 2006*, out of over 300 million guns in over 80 million gun owning households) in this country is relatively low compared with other mechanisms (poisoning: 326, drowning 934, automobile accidents: 3,984*).
If you are truly concerned about child safety, I'd say your efforts would be more effective directed elsewhere.
*all numbers from CDC "wisqars" injury mortality rates reporting system, age group >1 to 17, from 2006, the latest year complete figures are available.
Gertz
Tell your tales families in places like DC or NY where they aren't allowed to have guns to protect themselves from people who could care less about what the gun laws are. They are only allowed to fight off their attackers with marshmallows and pea shooters. Tell the families that are looking in the casket of their loved ones that thank goodness their loved one didn't violate Title 18-308 of the Virginia state code.
bad news, no matter how it got here
This poll is bad news, whether or not it's valid.
If it's not a statistically valid poll (which, with only 500 respondents, seems likely), then it demonstrates poor academic integrity, as well as poor journalistic integrity that it has been promoted by the Pilot.
If it is a statistically valid poll, then it shows a tragic ignorance on the part of "most Virginians" concerning civil rights, firearms, crime, and the so-called "gun show loophole" (which does not, in fact, exist -- the same laws apply at gun shows as apply everywhere else).
By the way, the "90%" statistic quoted from time to time in these comments about the percentage of crimes committed in Mexico with firearms from the USA are not simply inaccurate -- they are wildly, ridiculously wrong, and no one who repeats these absurd claims is worthy of being given any credence whatsoever.
The bottom line is twofold: 1) when law-abiding people are armed, violent crime decreases, and 2) the right to self-defense, and the right to own and carry the tools necessary for effective self-defense, are civil rights no less valuable and no less intrinsic than the rights to speak, to worship, and to marry as we see fit (or not a
My question for you:
You wrote:
"…when law-abiding people are armed, violent crime decreases…"
How do you determine who the law abiding citizens are?
If you can purchase a weapon from anyone who is not licensed and do so without a background check, how do we know you are law abiding?
The NRA way is, essentially, to let everyone buy a gun, then remove them from the murderers as they kill. After all, the 2nd amendment doesn't specify the need to be law abiding, just having a pulse is enough.
Of course, the body count is a little inconvenient.
Local background checks are the most effective
Local background checks have been shown to be the most effective way to cut down on gun deaths and still allow people to own guns. Local checks help keep the bad guys and the mentally ill from buying guns.
What loophole?
If I go to someone's house and buy a gun, does a background check need to be performed? NO.
So, what if the same person has a couple og guns he or she wants to sell and brings them to a gun show? The all of a sudden a background check needs to be done.
The only thing that will happen, is these people will sell their guns through online sales, adds in papers, word of mouth, and forget going to gun shows.
There will be no changes, no difference, and the same people will sell the same guns to others. They just won't do it at gun shows. No changes, no loophole. The Idea of a loophole is something that those with limited capacity for understanding have been led to believe, is the problem.
500 ignorant peasants (if not out-right limp-wristed liberals),
Hello,
This a response to "Armed". OOOh what a scary name you have...LOL....
I hate to break it to "Armed"......those "500 ignorant peasants (if not out-right limp-wristed liberals" beat you and your strange friends. Please stop highjacking the word Patriot. Patriots have brains and they arent homophobic as you are. Patriots have respect for all Americans. As far as the comment "You tell me which demographic holds more political infuence" your answer came in the last presidential election. Why is it so hard for you to believe that. Maybe you need to be a little more diverse in your friendships and get to know other people besides ones that are just like you!
Question number 3
One more comment on question number 3. The voters elected the Virginia General Assembly. Who elected the so called bipartisan commission?
Good point
I would also ask... what the "H" does gun laws have to do with re-districting questions? What other questions were on the poll that we don't know about? What was the opening line when approching the respondent for participation in the poll?
A real poll
If the Pilot wanted to show a real poll, stick on on here asking the same questions.. Bet you've get more than 500 responses and I'll just bet ya that you'll see a different result.
"most" of virginia???
This is the most appalling junk-science article I've read since Al Gore's piece on global warming. When will the lies every stop?
To beging with - 500 people polled, represents less than one-half of one-tenth, of one percent of the total population of 7.7 MILLION people in Virginia. In other words, 500 dissenting opinions out of a population of 7.7 MILLION people is statistically INSIGNIFICANT! No one will win or loose an election over 500 votes.
Now let me give you some numbers you probably *SHOULD* pay attention to...
Out of 7.7 Million residents in Virginia, approximately 200,000 have a concealed carry permit. This does not represent the entire body of gun-owning Virginians, just those who feel strongly enough about their rights to actuall *LEGALLY* carry their sidearms as they go about their day to day business.
500 ignorant peasants (if not out-right limp-wristed liberals), v. 200,000 patriots. You tell me which demographic holds more political infuence.
Permit
I have a CCP, but sometimes I prefer to keep it right out in the OPEN. People don't realize that I can slap my P-345 to my hip and walk outside and stroll around.
Most also don't realize that the police are a reaction force, not a preventative force, and that over 1.5 million crimes a year are prevented by legally armed citizens.
That BTW is the catch phrase here. People who are legally armed, follow the law. If their weapon is concealed, it's because they have had the training, and they have the understanding of that weapon, it's legal use, and how to handle it. They, like myself are going to FOLLOW and OBEY the law. The People carrying illegaly are the ones people should worry about, not US!
Well said, Douglas.
I have a CHP, and wouldn't dream of carrying out in the open. First, it would scare the hell out of people like Gertz, who would probably go running for a LEO. Second, it would take away the element of surprise, and my tactical advantage, in not letting the bad guy know that I'm carrying something besides my wallet. Third, if it was a Ruger, I'd have to put up with the Glock and Sig people laughing their heads off over: "BEFORE USING GUN-READ WARNING IN INSTRUCTION MANUAL AVAILABLE FREE FROM STURM, RUGER & CO., INC. SOUTHPORT, CONN. U.S.A."
I might buy a Ruger some day, if they stop sucking up to their corporate legal department, and the Brady bunch.
Open Carry
http://www.opencarry.org
http://www.vagunforum.net
There is no gun show loophole. Liberty is not something that government has any authority to dole out at their will and firearms do not now, more than at any other time in history, present a danger to citizens.
Lack of firearms and the people's weak-willed dependence on government and government agencies to protect and provide for them has allowed the propaganda machine of fear and insecurity to breed generations of emotional, easily manipulated serfs. Just because the government says we should do something doesn't mean we should.
Generally one might say it is just the opposite. The 2nd Amendment does not say anything about hunting, nor about "gun shows" ore having to get government's permission to exchange a firearm between one citizen and another. Firearms have many purposes - self defense, State's defense, national defense - but all of these are rendered immaterial by the weak-minded liberal fools who suckle at Uncle Sugar's teat and the satellite offices he manages throughout what was once a Constitutional Republic but now resembles more and more the British Empire we fought to escape some 233 years ago.
In ord
Polling
Thanks for reading and commenting, everyone. In response to some of the comments:
-- This was not a push poll, which is not actually a poll at all but is something generally done by a political campaign to influence people.
-- This poll was a random sample of 506 likely voters in Virginia. Here is a link to a Pilot story about polling and an article from the Gallup Organization that explains how random sampling works:
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/how-much-credence-should-you-give-political-poll
http://www.gallup.com/poll/7174/Yes-Polling-Works.aspx
-- Judy Ford Wason did not conduct the poll. The Public Policy Center at CNU, which is nonpartisan, conducted the poll.
Whether this fits the definition of a push poll or not...
...the questions were slanted in a way to get a desired result. For example, the question about guns in restaurants didn't even hint that it's ALREADY LEGAL to carry guns in restaurants that serve alcohol and even to drink while doing so...and no permit or vetting process is required. Anyone who can legally own a gun can do it. The question also notably didn't indicate that the proposed law change would preclude concealed handgun permit holders from drinking ANY alcohol while carrying concealed. The question special case in the law making private sales of guns at gun shows illegal was equally misleading, but the Pilot doesn't deign to grant me enough room to expound. They get unlimited space to spin "news" in whatever direction they find most acceptable to their views, and grant us a mere 750 characters to respond. And they wonder why their industry is dying.
You are so right Sailor
You are so right Sailor. They did distort the issue.
The questions
Thanks for commenting.
-- In response, the questions were were not presented in a way to get a desired result. The point of this poll was to get a sense of public opinion among likely voters in Virginia about these issues. This is straightforward: "Do you think people with concealed-weapons permits should be able to bring their weapons into restaurants that sell alcohol?"
-- Again, this is not a push poll. A push poll is not even a poll. They are used by political campaigns to influence public opinion. One of the most famous examples was the push poll used by George W. Bush's campaign against John McCain in the South Carolina GOP primary in 2000. Voters were asked if they would be less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child. This telephone "poll" was done by the Bush campaign. It didn't matter what the answers were - the point of the call was to influence voters.