The Virginian-Pilot
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VIRGINIA BEACH
How to redevelop 450 acres next to Norfolk was the subject Thursday night as the Beach sought input from the public, though the obvious subtext was whether the city should pursue light rail.
The land, which planners call the Newtown "strategic growth area," sits near the Norfolk light-rail station, which is under construction just across the city line at Newtown and Kempsville roads.
As about 100 residents and business owners talked around tables strewn with maps and colored sticky dots, light rail clearly was on their minds.
A planned flyover of Interstate 264 to link Greenwich Road and Cleveland Street is also a major element in planning the future of the mostly industrial area. That new link would directly connect the Newtown area with Pembroke and Town Center, a high-profile city redevelopment effort.
On light rail, opinions were mixed.
Virginia Beach is buying the old Norfolk Southern rail line that crosses the city for $40 million. The City Council has not taken an official stance on light rail, but planning for it is moving ahead.
At Richard Laslo's table, his group couldn't get enough red dots on the light-rail line map. Red meant "negative." He said he's against light rail unless it's paid for with private dollars.
Eric Anderson, who owns an office building on Greenwich Road, said folks at his table generally felt light rail would be good for business in the Beach.
Many residents of the Point O'View neighborhood near the study area who came to the meeting said they were against rail plans, citing traffic and noise.
With or without light rail in the Beach, city planners said the Newtown plan will give the city its first crack at high-density, urban-style development around the Norfolk station.
The company the city has hired to do the study will present detailed ideas in December. The city has undertaken similar planning efforts at the Oceanfront, Burton Station and Pembroke/Town Center.
Aaron Applegate, (757) 222-5122, aaron.applegate@pilotonline.com
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This meeting was not about light rail.
People who attended this meeting to complain about light rail or any other city policy were disrespecting the purpose of the meeting, especially if their beef with light rail has to do only with its cost. The goal was to get public input about the future of the area described. Residential and commercial property owners in the area should have a big say in what happens.
All of the light rail systems I've seen--Seattle, Washington, San Diego, Atlanta, San Francisco and others--are very quiet, much more quiet than traffic noise. Those that are noiser--e.g. Chicago and New York-- are noiser because they were built primarily with old subway train technology, not the new light rail tech.
Think ahead
Certainly the proposed improvements to the I-64/264 interchange, which includes the Greenwich Road flyover, and the light rail, are two big drivers of the need to think about the future. Further, the Beach is running out of land for new greenfield development, and the past suburban land use patterns don't work as well when gasoline is up to $5.00 or more, which is inevitable. More compact residential and multi use development in areas served by transit will be an important living alternative in the future. In that case, the City needs to plan better internal community pedestrian and bicycle flow, parks and recreation opportunities, and even a "town center" in the sense of a community center or square. Light industrial may be better located around Oceana given the AICUZ zones there.
Urban development?
That area is mainly hotels, industrial and commercial mixed in with a couple borrow pits. Exactly what kind of urban development do they plan there? Would it replace the existing businesses in the area. I am sure it would have an adverse effect on the people in Point O View. The business I run is outside of the shaded area but is up against the tracks in that area and when the trains used to run the vibration and noise from them were significant. I also live about a mile south of the tracks. At night even from my house you can hear the traffic on 264 clearly. Not sure if that is a prime area for urban development.
Light rail trains are much
Light rail trains are much smaller than the humongous freight trains that used to run down the line, and the engines will be much quieter than the diesel engines because of their use of electricity (ever not hear a hybrid approaching from behind while walking in a parking lot?)
The urban plan is to set standards for new development, not to push people out of the area. I very much doubt that the city will take a Town Center like philosophy in that it will be an active participant in the redevelopment. Rather this is just a standards guide, so that if someone wants to put a new development there it would need to follow the guidelines.
No faith
I remember when the I6E exit to 264E flyover was built years ago was promoted as a 2 lane ramp exit that would solve congestion problems on I64. From what I remember it was safety issues and bad design that turned it back into a one lane flyover now (bad design), and congestion remains.
I see 64W to 264 E back up for miles due to a single one lane exit (which is a joke) and nothing has been done for years yet we havemoney to widen the Greenbrier/Battlefield are.
I see 264W to 64E merging with 264E in a merging fiasco which sees an accident almost all the time.
Has the Sportsplex been a wise investment?
I have no faith in the study on light rail. I have traveled the England rails. Most all of the rail commutes in from villages into central London. Now it may make sense in the future to tie outlying Suffolk and Chesapeake into VB/Norfolk, but to try to commute people around within VB will not be very profitable.
Lets fix our issues with the highway system that we all use first.
Went to the Meeting?
Did any of you angry Virginia Beach residents actually go to the meeting and tell the city staff what you think? I'd think that would do you more good than leaving what you think in a comment here and hoping somebody who works for the right city department reads it. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. It's a planning thing, so a bunch of urban planners and architects will come up with some poorly thought-out pipe-dream social engineering "vision" based on whatever the latest AIA buzzword is and that any halfway competent engineer could spend hours listing the plethora of reasons why it won't work, and then that plan will gather dust on a shelf forever unless some politician twenty years from now uses it as an excuse to do what they want.
light rail
a total sinkhole waste of taxpayers money to aenrich a handfull of delevopers, not another word needs to be wasted. VB city council is nothing more than bagmen of the loot.
Vision and implementation
Yes, cfrederick, and that is exactly why it is important to develop a new strategic growth plan for Newtown and the other SGAs. With the introduction of light rail, the nature of this mostly developed area can and should change over time. A good plan can guide that development, and property owners can use its vision to determine what is the best re-use of their land. For example, there is much light industrial land which will now be in close proximity to the light rail line. Perhaps that area could be planned and zoned for more intense, multi use development and office buildings. The area has a few schools, but lacks public space. Perhaps a park and recreation area can be created that would support vertical apartments and/or condominiums. Perhaps a bike trail and hiking trail can provide better internal circulation so the area can change over time. A good plan is a start; the creation of tools for implementation is the second step.
Why not just be truthful with the Public Mike
Just come right out and say it that with you being one of the Developers Va Beach continues to use this project just lines you pockets with our hard earded Tax dollars so you will support it no matter what the rest of us say. You see if we brought this developmen right through your neighborhood and took over your homes and businesses then we would hear just how unfair the city is being in this decision. All you are concerned about is the Money. A wise man said FOLLOW the money and then you will see and hear the truth.
light rail
light rail does almost nothing for the transportation mess. You developers see this urban development (like we need anymore people in this city) as your only hope for generating revenue in this area. Since there is no land for development, why don't you and the other developers move to a part of the country that has land and wants more development. Many of us do not want Virginia Beach to become Charlotte, Buffalo, Portland or any other city with a useless light rail. Your activism is purely to put more money in your pocket, not out of some sense of desire for good for the area.