The Virginian-Pilot
©
CHESAPEAKE
Apostles Lutheran Church voted Sunday to quit the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America after the denomination's approval of co-habitation for gay clergy.
The Chesapeake church's separation reflected its members' belief that the ELCA was increasingly moving away from Scripture as the standard for church life, said the Rev. John Dooley, senior pastor.
The vote was 65-8. Apostles has nearly 400 members.
"You can no longer go from one ELCA church to another and expect the same theological foundation," Dooley said.
The ELCA last summer voted to allow gay and lesbian clergy to live with a partner if they are in "committed" relationships. Earlier, the denomination had required such clergy to remain celibate.
Dooley said Apostles, at 370 Johnstown Road, was the first of the 15 ELCA churches in South Hampton Roads to leave since the denomination's national assembly acted.
For years, gay ordination and same-sex relationships have been a hot-button topic in the ELCA, as well as the Episcopal Church and the Presbyterian Church.
Apostles has joined Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ. The group has 249 congregations, many formerly in the ELCA. Apostles is the only member church in Virginia. It could be joined by St. John Evangelical Lutheran Church in Roanoke, which has scheduled a January vote on leaving the ELCA.
Unlike when a congregation leaves the Episcopal Church, which has sometimes gone to court to retain the real estate of separating parishes, Apostle s will retain its property, Dooley said.
Despite Apostle s' lopsided vote, the decision to leave the ELCA wasn't easy, Dooley said.
"I can't tell you how many times I've cried over this," he said. "It was a very painful decision, and we'll probably lose some folks over it."
Steven G. Vegh, (757) 446-2417, steven.vegh@pilotonline.com
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Pilot agenda
Two points: 1) The Pilot has some homosexual "huge" controversial issue in their paper every other day it seems.2) Separation of Church and state wasn't meant to protect the state from the church. It was meant to protect the church from the state. Moral relativists, in their ignorance, flipped it 180 degrees and use it as a battle cry every time they don't have anything intelligent to say.
Just a guess here?
I am going to guess here.....you got your law degree at regent?
and you took your history lessons from whom?
You remember anything about history? It was the uhm I think it was called the "Church of England" that was uhm the inspiration for the want of a separation of Church and State. Ever heard of Henry VIII? Or how about his daughter Mary (Bloody Mary)? These were people who used their powers to control the "Church" there in England. Oh yeah, not to mention the "separation" you people refer to isn't in the Declaration of Independence, the bill of rights or the constitution. It was in a letter he wrote to the Danbury Baptists. You people are the epitome of government outcome-based education when it comes to American history. LOOK at the bill of rights and find out why each of them is there! Hint...it had a lot to do with an intrusive (English) government!
Consider this....
I love chocolate chip cookies. I would eat them every day if given the chance. I know what the ingredients are and accept them.
If someone comes with a plate of perfect looking chocolate chip cookies and asks me to have some, but says the recipe has some poop in the mix, I'm going to refuse the cookie. The person says "Its only a little bit of poop. Other folks have had some and asked for more, whats the big deal?"
Others are free to eat the cookies, but I'd still pass. What would you do?
Sailorcurt-you missed our point!
The entire issue is this:
Is this church within their rights to drop out of the parent organization when, in the church's view, the parent organization is not living up to the tenets of the religion?
That's what it's about, plain and simple.
Sailor you missed our point, We DON'T care what this organization does amongst themselves! It isn't our group. What we are saying is that it is a bigotted, unfair, and hateful organization!
No one is suggesting we outlaw them leaving their church. (see we are very strong believers in Seperation of church and state) What we want to get out there is that it is an intolerant group of people. Well maybe that isn't fair, what they are doing in this particular situation is intolerant.
Because we are not members of this organization we don't get to vote on what their bylaws are, but that doesn't mean that we should sit quietly by and watch you do yet another intolerant and mean thing!
Good Christians
I surmise that all the good Christians posting condemnations upon their gay brothers and sisters here are such good folks that they are living lives free of sin.
You should be so proud....... oops, that's sinful ain't it
"...but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Saved people will look forward to a judgement..."For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ." And then there is the great white throne of judgement for the unsaved. Either way you will be judged. I can't believe you people will vote for the POTUS, Senate and etc and yet rail on a group of like minded people voting and separating from a denomination that no longer supports what they believe! Should they be sheep? Should they be led like blind people? Should they make up their own minds (like you did) or not? These are people who are not allowing their former denomiation to tell them what to believe! I thought that is why all you non-believers hate us Christians...because we "force" our beliefs on you! Well these people aren't allowing that in their Church!
"We're not under Old
"We're not under Old Testament law, we're under the New Testament which states..." - oreel
It's funny to me when people just make stuff like this up.
God created gayes
God created all mankind, and that includes gayes.
In my book intolerance is a sin!
What???
God created Satan too! What's your point?