CHESAPEAKE
The City Council is curious about light rail and whether it could connect to Chesapeake.
So on Tuesday, the council voted 8-0 to pursue a federally funded study on the possibility of extending light-rail service to the city.
Councilman C.E. "Cliff" Hayes Jr. said he would like the study to analyze whether the system could extend to South Norfolk or Greenbrier.
Councilwoman Patricia Willis said another federal study looked at a similar request about five years ago.
"It was determined that we were not densely populated enough, and to have it go over a bridge would be too expensive," she said. "I would be interested to see how we've changed over the last five years."
A light-rail transit system called The Tide is under construction in Norfolk and expected to open next fall.
The $288 million starter light-rail line will span a 7.4-mile route from the city line at Newtown Road to the medical complex on Brambleton Avenue.
Chesapeake staffers originally wanted the city to be included in a regional study that's already looking into the possibility of extending light rail to Virginia Beach and the Norfolk Naval Base. But officials with Hampton Roads Transit said the study had already been approved and could not be changed, according to Chesapeake documents.
A resolution approved Tuesday requests that the Transportation District Commission of Hampton Roads, the governing body of HRT, take necessary steps towards getting the study approved and funded.
Mike Saewitz, 757) 222-5207, mike.saewitz@pilotonline.com
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My pov
As a former Va. beach resident I voted against my tax money going to a system that ran a basic east to west from the ocean front to downtown. Neither of which I visited on a regular basis, so it didn't do me much good. Now as a resident of North Carolina I say build it with YOUR tax money and I will spend my $1.50 at least once just for the novolty of riding it. Oh and build it for the entertainment value of the VP's reader comments.
Question
Who will pay for the transit police department needed to patrol the light rail? Of course you know we will need a transit police department, am I wrong?
Kool Aid Chuggers
Reality: "A light-rail transit system called The Tide is under construction in Norfolk and expected to open next fall."
Fantasy: "The City Council is curious about light rail and whether it could connect to Chesapeake."
Only when we triple our population and build straight up (density) instead of out will this TOD scheme become plausible.
Living in Norfolk, I'm already paying for this waste.
Time for some new taxpayer-homeowners to pony up more hundreds of millions.
IT'S YOUR TURN NOW CHESAPEAKE!
Mr. Wizard knows this has already been decided by our leaders. Mr. Wizard predicts Chesapeake WILL get a spur, but to WHERE is the question.
TOD
Transit Oriented Development occurs once fixed rail in place. Just look at the developments that happen around DC metro stations.
Small Thinker
The best sign of a small thinker is to expect current conditons to be the same in the future. Of course, the national economic situation ebbs and flows, and so does our situation. Yes, we have come back to some degree from the abyss, and there is no doubt that economic conditions will improve in the future. That said, the gridlock so characteristic of our current transportation system may not be able to improve for a decade or so given the recent election and the voters strong preference to improve transportation but not increase user fees. That said, there is money for public transit, and light rail is the best way to provide immediate improvement in this corridor. Further, it supports the strategic growth areas and provides multi use communities that have been shown to be successful. Let's move ahead smartly on this alternative.
Freeloaders love light rail - so do TOD developers
As I read the many comments here from those who state they support spending precious tax funds to build very expensive (per mile) light rail, I wonder how many would actually ride it if they had to pay the actual cost per seat, per trip? Freeloaders love wealth redistribution. Freeloaders love light rail. Why? Because instead of paying $8 to 15$ a ticket for each ride, which is what the service costs, their $1.50 fares are massively subsidized by others - at this time federal tax funds for ligh rail come from gas taxes. The "others" paying the gas taxes are drivers that are not using the light rail. Call it Socialism, or Communism ... or whatever ... but the light rail planned for our low density region is wealth redistribution combined with special business interests hoping to line their own pockets from the promised increased in land values and TOD - Transit Oriented Development. Of course, how the developers will borrow the hundreds of millions required to build their promised TOD is a mystery given the global economic conditions.
So airline passengers are freeloaders too?
So I guess all airline passengers and people who use the interstates are freeloaders too, Reid? Do you begin to realize how heavily subsidized both the airlines and our interstates are? Airports: built with federal funding. Air traffic control system: operated and funded by the federal government. Interstates: built with federal funds. State after state are having problems coming up with the money to maintain them. That doesn't even include the problems with the bridges either. So does that make our entire civilian transportation system socialistic? Would you want to do without them? Just wait until gasoline goes back up, which it is sure to do. I wonder if you'll be singing a different tune then. If a person pays taxes, they're not 'freeloaders' on any of the transportation systems.
Light rail federal funds come only from gas taxes.
Wow, can someone be this wrong - and so willing to make that revealation about themselves - public? The statement that anyone paying any tax and who rides light rail with fares having massive taxpayers subsidies garnered from those that are not using the light rail (drivers paying federal and state gas taxes) are not freeloaders is clearly fasle. This statement could not be more false; "If a person pays taxes, they're not 'freeloaders' on any of the transportation systems." - what hog wash this statement really is!
"very expensive (per mile) light rail"?!?
Once again, political extremist Reid Greenmun doesn't let facts get in the way of an attack. The truth of the matter is that light rail is cheaper per mile than widening our interstates, and more cost-effective than bulldozing through subdivisions to build new arterial roads.
HRT shill Henry Ryto is wrong - again.
The cost per mile of constructing interstates and the capacity they provide to move people 24/7 365 is FAR less than the cost for low capacity light rail per mile. Henry Ryto is either uninformed - or chooses to spread false claims to support his extreme support for taxpayer subsidies mass transit, spreading socialism,and promoting freeloading as a way of life.
Its how its operated and maintained
that will make the difference. Even though it took me longer, I road the bus for a year to the base. I didn't have to think about driving and being fatigued in heavy traffic- that was the upside. The downside is that even the MAX buses were so poorly maintained they broke down routinely, we even had to transfer to another bus on the busy HOV. The other is the operation. Once you've been left in the cold several times by late buses, some anywhere from 15-30 minutes late, it leaves a very bad taste in your mouth once you get your feeling back.
Agree
Although the MAX is slightly more reliable than the standard bus, there have been late and no-show busses. Riding the MAX daily from Silverleafe to norfolk is nice, but sadly the daily commuter run, oceanfront to downtown, is totally under used. Daily the scheduled bus I ride has average 5-7 people.
MAX service has been cut back twice, to the point that it only runs until 9 AM and picks up again at 3-8 PM. Still only a handful of people. So where are all the millions of riders going to come from for the proposed train, that runs the same route?
Big difference
Trains don't get held up in traffic like buses do. Unless there's breakdown, they can keep tight schedules unlike buses that are at the mercy of highway and street traffic.
Back to the Future
Here we go; back to the future. My father in law first dated my mother in law by taking the steamer from Cape Charles, getting off downtown, taking the trolley to Portlock, where the family picked him up and delivered him to Great Bridge. My how things change, yet stay the same. The trolley tracks were torn up and replaced by miles of highway; now we are considering light rail. It turns out that suburbanization has costs that few societies can bear when gas costs skyrocket. Necessity becomes the mother of invention.
What are ya'll smoking?
We are no longer a 9 to 5 society, most people that I know work longer days, shop at off hours etc. and need to have a flexible transportation schedule. I am not going to wait in the dark to get on a train in downtown Norfolk to get home to the Beach. For safety reasons, I would NEVER ride any public transportation especially after dark.
Silly
Amazing how people compare chesapeake, or norfolk, or VB to the likes of DC, New York, Tokyo, etc. Those are real cities, what we have here is a collection if individual cities, with seperate governments, that pretend to be a region. Yet when it comes to "regional" decisions, the fighting like children in a sandbox starts. Me first. I want it in norfolk. Must go to the southside. Let's vote and not include the peninsula.
Heck, VB has already spent $45 million on a train system BEFORE the study is done! I am sure they either know the outcome of the study, or could care less what it says, they are going to waste tax dollars no matter what.
Forget the fact that the state budget is in shables. Forget that there is no funding to maintain existing transportation. Let's just spend huge amounts of money on a train system to spur more development.
Win win
Spoken by a defender of the way things are, not the way things will become. Now that the Southeast Parkway and Greenbelt is near extinction, the need for transportation alternatives in our most urban corridor has become imperative. With the cancellation of the I-64/264 interchange improvements, it is unlikely that this corridor will see any road expansion, so the light rail provides a relatively low cost option to widening the interstate which would require condemnation of homes and businesses and years of disruption on the highways we need to use the most. Since most of the under utilized parcels in this corridor are light industrial uses, the conversion of these uses to more vertical, multi use communities will produce great increases in the commercial real estate tax base which will help to finance the local share of the development of light rail. All in all, a win for residential communities as well.
Not you again Mike
The only reason you want this is for your own personal gain, so please make sure that everyone knows your true agenda before spouting lies. And please, how is this boondoggle going to help the real traffic problems in the area, which really don't exist in VB on 264, unless there is an accident. Fix HRBT first, then we can talk.
A win?
So once you get rid of the industry, the places where people work, who will live in the developments you build? Since the train removed the economic base, the jobs the people had, where will the people work?
Move to NAS Oceana area
Well of course, I did not say get rid of the industry, and in fact, the new development zones created around NAS Oceana are perfect for light industrial uses since they are compatible with the Air Installation Compatibility Use Zones that govern land use around DoD facilities. So those that would find it fiscally advantageous will have opportunities to buy or lease industrial property at the Beach as well. Of course, this will not be a forced situation, but businesses may find that rising land value will encourage relocation to more compatible space.