Building a parallel Midtown Tunnel and bringing back tolls came closer to reality Tuesday when state transportation officials announced an interim agreement with a private group to further study fixing one of the region's worst bottlenecks.
A consortium of private firms - Elizabeth River Crossings - wants to add a second tube to the Midtown Tunnel, refurbish the Downtown Tunnel and extend the Martin Luther King Freeway. Work would begin in 2011 and end in 2015.
The $1.3 billion to $2.1 billion proposal includes car tolls of $2 to $3 and truck tolls of $6 to $9 for both the Midtown and Downtown tunnels.
The Virginia Department of Transportation is reviewing how much money the state could contribute to reduce the tolls.
Already, $100 million has been set aside in the state's six-year road-building plan. Transportation Secretary Pierce Homer said recently that it would require $400 million to $600 million in state money to bring the tolls to an acceptable level. He said that money will likely have to be taken from other local road projects.
Hampton Roads leaders have said that a toll of around $1.50 would be more palatable to local motorists.
"I think another challenging set of issues will be the ability and willingness to accept tolls on a pre-existing facility, which has not been done in Virginia before," Homer said.
The Midtown Tunnel, with about 44,000 vehicles daily, is the busiest two-lane road east of the Mississippi River.
By signing the agreement, VDOT is not yet committing to the improvements but is advancing the required preliminary work, which includes refining cost estimates and toll rates.
The agreement calls for completing "a project feasibility assessment to determine if the project is economically viable," said VDOT spokeswoman Shannon Marshall.
Homer said the Midtown Tunnel should be the region's top road-building priority.
The Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization is working on prioritizing the region's road needs. In an early computer modeling exercise, the Midtown Tunnel ranked second behind expanding the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel. The planning group is still tweaking the model.
"What is your highest achievable priority?" Homer asked. "The project is the Midtown Tunnel. Can the region stick by that? If not, it will be years before we have a doable project.
"These are multibillion-dollar investments and they don't happen overnight."
Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com
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Poor military and dependents...
It does not seem fair that all of the military and their families now have to pay to enter Portsmouth to get medical care...that is SO WRONG!!
Let's do the Math!
The Midtown Tunnel is the most traveled two lane road in the State of Virginia and the Downtown Tunnel has the highest vehicle capacity tunnel in the U.S. With the present day numbers of vehicles per day through those tunnels of simply 140,000 cars a day (not including trucks or multi axle cars) the income at $2.50 per car equals
$350,000 per day,
$2.45 million per week,
$127 million per year, and next that will be for fifty years totaling a whopping
$6,370,000,000.00 (that’s billon).
The estimated cost of the new tunnel, MLK extension, and retrofitting of both tunnels is only $850,000,000.00 to date. Can we say boondoggle and not only that; the company (Skanska) that is proposing this project is the same that is now building the Norfolk Light Rail with a cost overrun by over 40%! I question the ability to keep those tolls in perspective at all. Step up to the plate folks we need another Boston Tea Party NOW!
PRIVATE TOLLS=TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. CALL YOUR CITY, STATE, AND FEDERALS POLITICAL REPRESENTATION AND LET THEM KNOW WE NEED A CHOICE. NO TOLLS ON OLD ROADS!
They're building a new tunnel
So it won't be a new toll on an old road. It'll be a new toll on a new road. And to build new roads (desperately needed in this case) you've got to come up with some kind of money. It's either impose tolls or raise taxes.
If they're going to toll the downtown tunnel, though, the least they can do is redesign the eastbound side's merge with 464. Make it so the 464 traffic enters on the left instead of the right. That would make the berkely bridge safer and probably cut down on a lot of the congestion there.
$2000 a year
That is what it will cost you out of your pay before taxes assuming $3 a day used every weekday of the year round trip. Ridiculous. If you make $50,000 a year, almost the first two weeks of the year are used to pay for the toll. If you make $25,000 a year, the first month of your salary is used to pay for the toll.
Why the resistance to tolls?
Why the resistance to tolls? Almost all the bridges and tunnels around here started of with tolls and when the bonds were paid off they were removed. (I think they should have been lowered them and kept to pay for maintenance but, whatever.)
The Jordan Bridge, Berkley Bridge, James River Bridge, I264(old SR44 portion), Chesapeake Bay Bridge, Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel, Coleman Bridge, etc.
The toll on the JRB in 1955 was $1.80. (Trucks were $4) That's about $14.00 today.
Jefferson once observed, toll financing provided a means of building highway facilities for which there was a need but which were too complex and costly to be constructed by the counties alone. I don't see what's changed except that now they are too complex and costly for the state either.
the problem is...
THey built the tunnels THEN tolled them, they want to Toll the existing two tunnels and THEN build THEN toll some more. this is the major problem people have with this! get a loan build it then toll it and make your money back!
Could you imagine the bottleneck with tolls at the downtown and midtown tunels. it would be a nightmare!!
Here's what's wrong:
The state is effectively giving away a significant piece of its property and it's transportation responsibilities in this region, and all it gets in return is a moderate expansion of the facility least likely to improve overall transportation in the region, which the citizens will now have to PAY to use. If VDOT is going to let a private company profit off of this state owned facility for generations to come, and free itself of all these maintenance costs, the least they could do is redirect those funds to another facility which will benefit THIS region (such as more lanes at the HRBT or a new untolled Uptown Tunnel connecting 564 to 164). Instead, they give us a plan without a single new major projects in this region for years to come, but plenty in Northern VA.
So...are you saying you're against the tolls :-)
"...the least they could do is redirect those funds to another facility which will benefit THIS region (such as more lanes at the HRBT or a new untolled Uptown Tunnel connecting 564 to 164)."
Um, I think the reason they are talking about allowing a private company to refurbish the Downtown tunnel is because we don't have the money to properly maintain it and adding a second tube at the Midtown is hardly to be considered a "moderate expansion" nor should the MLK be considered an insignificant improvement. Do you ever use the Midtown?
"a new untolled Uptown Tunnel connecting 564 to 164"
The maintenance funds wouldn't pay for the feasibility study on a 5 mile long bridge tunnel.
As far a Northern VA goes, there is no comparison between us. We don't have a rush hour compared to N. VA. We have a few problem spots and that's all.
Where to start?
Okay, this post is a bit dated but since I stumbled across it again I may as well respond:
I'm not opposed to tolls if they're done right and for the right reasons. With electronic tolling and no manual option it doesn't seem to add an unreasonable amount of overhead. And they can make a lot of sense on new facilities and private road initiatives. But tolling something that's already been paid for is wrong, and if you're talking about a federal interstate highway, it's generally illegal (23 USC 129).
I haven't heard VDOT claim that they lack the budget to maintaining the Downtown and the Midtown (but if you have a source let me know).
I think it is fair to call it a moderate expansion, especially compared to the cost. We'd get one vehicle additional lane in either direction by tolling six lanes that are currently free, and it won't connect to any limited-access highways in Norfolk.
Yes, I drive the Midtown fairly regularly, eastbound at rush hour. It adds a few miles to my commute vs the Downtown, so it takes about the same amount of time, but the backups are shorter so I find it less frustrating.
I can't speak to the cost of the Uptown Tunnel alternative. I've
"Uptown Tunnel" & Craney Island
I've only seen it presented as part of a 6-project package in the referrendum a few years back. But at least a portion of the feasibility study was already completed at that time. Possibly more expensive than the 50-year maintenance budget for the existing tunnels, but since that number hasn't been part of any of the public discussions of this proposal, I really can't say. And the Uptown would be a tunnel, with little or no bridge, only as long as the river is wide (about a mile) plus approaches. The rest is on land, and much of the highway connection will be built regardless for truck access to the new marine terminal. See www.craneyisland.info
And I'm not saying our traffic here is worse than DC, just that we deserve a fair share of funding in proportion to our tax base and our needs. See http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/group-criticizes-lack-transportation-funding
Tolls will be a way of life soon
This area is obviously way behind in building new roads to handle severe traffic issues we have every rush hour. To build new roads without tolls, we have to raise taxes, for the last decade or so we have told our state representatives "do not raise taxes", or "reduce taxes". So now they are afraid to raise taxes to build new roads, because we will vote them out. So the solution for a state afraid to raise taxes is tolls. Tolls here, tolls there, tolls everywhere.
Tweek the model? Scandalous!
Are they going to tweek the model like they did on the light rail project? Tweek it at 50% under what it will really cost, and then sweep the true cost under the rug until there is no going back?
Oh and then, pay the head of the idiot project a year and a half's salary to take the fall for all the other idiots that (lets face it) just enjoy the perks and free lunches that come along with being on the board?
Honestly, I can't afford a toll of any kind. The state of Virginia taxes every ounce of life out of you, and I don't have a dime more that I can spare each month.
Property tax on my 2005 very modest vehicle is $400 a year, the stickers on it are around $48 per year (part of that is taxed), $68 a month for insurance (part of which is taxed),and the yearly inspection (that takes four hours) is $16.00 per year (part of which is taxed). On top of that, gas is 2.69 per gallon and yet again part of that is taxed.
Food, clothing, electric, gas, cable, phone, and any form of entertainment is taxed. They even tax the time you donate to research if they pay you for the project. Example: If you donate YOUR BODY for ANY research study project that pays over a certain amount per
cont
year (part of that is taxed), $68 a month for insurance (part of which is taxed),and the yearly inspection (that takes four hours) is $16.00 per year (part of which is taxed). On top of that, gas is 2.69 per gallon and yet again part of that is taxed.
Food, clothing, electric, gas, cable, phone, and any form of entertainment is taxed. They even tax the time you donate to research if they pay you for the project. Example: If you donate YOUR BODY for ANY research study project that pays over a certain amount per year, they tax it. It's your body, and any health issues that may occure, are yours to live with, but they want their piece of your pie.
A light fixture for my apartment might cost me $15 to $50. The same light fixture for a government building would cost them $250. to $1000. Why? Because they have "CONTRACTS" with businesses, and those businesses over charge because they know they will get paid by TAX PAYERS, and TAX PAYERS are always good for their money.
I honestly can't afford any more, and I'm sick to death of hearing about all these stupid projects that do not benefit the majority of the people, but instead make our state look better on paper to businesses that
I honestly can't afford any
I honestly can't afford any more, and I'm sick to death of hearing about all these stupid projects that do not benefit the majority of the people, but instead make our state look better on paper to businesses that are looking to move here for (what) TAX BREAKS. The whole while sucking the very life out of the people that keep this city running; normal hardworking, over-tired, over worked, under paid, over taxed citizens.
My 5 minute commute home sometimes takes me 45 minutes to an hour because of all the construction they have going on.
The citizens should be voting on every dime they want to spend unless they can personally INSURE that every penny will be well spent, the project will be completed on time, and that the construction will not hender or cause rush hour issues.
In fact, in some states, construction workers work AT NIGHT so that traffic flow isn't as compromised during normal business hours.
Here's an idea: FIRE everyone that has anything to do with budgeting, and hire people that know how to live on a fixed income.
Tolls on the Downtown?
Previous articles on this have specifically said the "refurbishing" of the Downtown Tunnel would be cosmetic only. How can anyone justify making only cosmetic improvements and then charging a toll? Add the second Midtown tube, put a toll on it, make it a REASONABLE toll, and I have no problem with that. But putting a toll on a tunnel that receives no benefit from it is insanity.
Enforcement
Will it stop Tractor Trailers from over turning and spilling their contents on the highway ?
NO.
And it also wouldn't reduce truck traffic off the real bottlenecks of Ghent, ODU, Laveyette and other areas trucks have to travel through to get from NIT to PIT and Crainey Island Terminal. However a tunnel between Crainey Island and Terminal Blvd would. In fact, it would take the truck traffic off of the narrow and congested Hampton Blvd all together and also releive Hampton Blvd of the car traffic going to the Naval Base from Portsmouth, Western Branch and Suffolk. It would also be a good alternative route in the event of problems at the HRBT to get to either James River Bridge or Monitor Merrimac. VDOT and the area politicians don't seem to be interested in actually easing the traffic problems. It seems they are only interested in adding tolls.
About hat tunnel between craney island and terminal blvd
It's part of the third crossing plan. And if you read enough transportation/traffic article comments on this site, you'll hear from people who think it would benefit no one but the ports.
I dont mind a Toll.....
I dont mind a toll ON A NEW BRIDGE OR TUNNEL, but you must show me that you can build it first. on time and on budget! This talk about tolling all of the old Tunnels and bridges before you improve anything is bogus. What if you toll us for 2 years and then decide that the tunnel is going to be delayed for another 5 years are you going to continue to toll us for 5 years? will we get our tolls back?
Build it first show us you can build it on time and on budget and then apply your tolls.
Remember the big "REGIONAL" talk a few years back?
The big plan in the 1980's was to have a "Region" as though the area was one big city instead of the individual city feel. What do these bunch of clowns we call "leaders" think tolls are going to do for the "Region". I know I for one will not be going over the toll roads unless absolutely necessary and I'm sure that won't be often. The other issue to point out about our great leadership is the location of this tunnel. Do you really and truly think a "parallel" tunnel will ease the bottleneck? If so, then the "leaders" obviously have not looked any further than the proposed toll booth. Hampton Blvd from the mouth of the tunnel to Terminal Blvd is nothing but a bottleneck. If your going to spend money on a new tunnel, locate the tunnel in a smart area like from Crainey Island to Terminal Blvd. That location would split traffic up and ease the burden on Hampton Blvd. Look at an area view of the locations and you'll see it's feasible. This project seems to be about toll money than bottleneck relief.