More General Assembly newsRICHMOND
Virginia state universities appear to be safe, for at least another year, from legislative attempts to limit the number of out-of-state students they can admit to their campuses.
Four bills to cap out-of-state enrollment at state schools were tabled Monday in a House of Delegates subcommittee, meaning they are unlikely to advance in this session of the General Assembly.
Most of the discussion centered on HB1026, introduced by Del. Timothy Hugo, R-Fairfax County, which would have required state universities to enroll at least 75 percent of their students from the in-state applicant pool.
The measure would have affected four schools that now fall under that threshold: the University of Virginia, now at 62 percent in-state; the College of William and Mary, 63 percent; Virginia Tech, 70 percent; and James Madison University, 71 percent.
Three schools - Norfolk State University, Virginia State University and Virginia Military Institute - would have been exempted from the legislation.
Hugo, who has addressed the issue on the House floor several times this year, said he knows of Virginia students with 4.0 grade-point averages or better who were denied admission to state schools.
The problem, he said, is that out-of-state students are flocking to Virginia schools, attracted by their tuition levels, which, even at out-of-state rates, are cheaper than Ivy League schools.
He referred to U.Va. as "the University of New York, Charlottesville campus" and William and Mary as "the University of New Jersey, Williamsburg campus."
"They come here because it's a good deal," he said.
Leonard Sandridge, chief operating officer at U.Va., spoke against the legislation, saying the university is committed to accommodating more Virginia students but doesn't believe a cap on out-of-state enrollment is the way to do it. He called the measure incompatible with U.Va.'s role as a major research university.
Hugo retorted, "What you're saying is, there's not enough smart students in Virginia."
The subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee tabled the bills on a voice vote, recommending that the issue be studied over the coming year by Gov. Bob McDonnell's advisory commission on higher education.
Del. Jimmie Massie, R-Richmond, said out-of-state students are an important factor in the diversity and quality of Virginia universities.
"We need some schools that are nationally and internationally competitive," he said. "This bill would work against that."
Hugo's bill would have required that any revenue lost by cutting the number of out-of-state students be made up by increasing out-of-state tuition.
State schools already subsidize the cost of education for in-state students by charging substantially higher tuition rates for out-of-state students.
At U.Va., for instance, out-of-state tuition and fees total $29,873, nearly four times the $7,873 paid by Virginia students. The State Council of Higher Education estimates that out-of-state students at U.Va. pay
160 percent of the actual cost of their education.
A staff analysis calculated that Hugo's bill would have caused a revenue shortfall of nearly
$120 million that would have had to be offset by still higher out-of-state tuition rates. In the case of U.Va., that would have required an out-of-state tuition hike of 39 percent.
Bill Sizemore, (804) 697-1560, bill.sizemore@pilotonline.com
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Out of state students
How many Virginia students choose to go out of state? It's their choice whether to attend a school in state or out-of-state. If there is a limit on out-of-state students attending Virginia Colleges don't you think that other states would stop our students from attending theirs? It would.
Hugo is a simpleton
Hugo is so stupid that he doesn't know what every high school student in the state knows: 4.0 doesn't mean ANYTHING when the GPA scales we use go up to 5.0.
There are 4.0 kids in high schools here who have Cs. A good GPA is up over 4.5.
NO ONE is being shut out of going to a state school in Virginia. Everyone's angel can't go to UVA and WandM. That's why there's ODU and CNU and VCU and the others.
How many of these
How many of these out-of-state students are actually paying all that tuition? How many of them are subsidized by scholarships (athletic and otherwise)?
Do the scholarship dollars spent on visible athletic programs' recruiting of students from out-of-state, reflect back in university revenues for scholarship dollars available for other students? In other words, are we making money on these out-of-state students, enough to justify recruiting them and bringing them in? Are athletic boosters and commercial revenues from nationally televised games bringing in enough money to offset costs for other students, including those from in-state?
Remember this!
Remember this the next time the schools are asking for money and complaining that they need more capacity. Also, remember the legislators that continue to allow deserving Virginia students to be shut out of schools that their parents have paid for over the years.
Need the cap
Virginia students who cannot get into Virginia colleges because of out-of-state students, then have to go out of state themselves and pay higher tuition. Ridiculous! Virginia tax paying citizens should have the first draw to enter Virginia colleges, and then out of state IF there is room. Another thing is cap the OUT OF COUNTRY students - let them stay in their own country and go to school instead of us subsidizing their education so they can come back and bomb us.
It's apparent that the Delegates
Just need to go home now. They are up to their pointless worthless best and doing absolutely nothing for Virginians. I've lived here for 22 years now, and Virginia is beyond fast becoming nothing but a Godforsaken cesspool.
Out of State Tuition
Until the state of VA can find a way to truly support its public schools and colleges at a reasonable level, it will continue to be impossible for these schools to generate enough tuition dollars to make up the difference unless they are allowed to pass it on in some measure to out of state students. There is a cap on how much they can charge instate students, and that is why they are called "public." I find it amazing that so many people don't seem to understand that,when the legislature makes a cut in funding to public colleges, the schools must find a way to fill that hole and tuition and fees is the most efficient way to do that. I don't think the schools even get much of the lottery money anymore. VA's public colleges are no longer state supported and some of the older and more established schools with large foundations should be allowed to go semi-private and charge what the market will allow. They are no longer state supported but only minimally assisted by the taxpayers of VA.
I want to meet the 4.0 student
If a local student with a 4.0 gpa can't get into a Virginian college then that college better start opening more slots because the student will be accepted by an out of state college. While I can't point to any prove I am willing to bet most college students will end up finding jobs (careers) in the same state of the school they attend.
Talk about a brain drain!!
The same goes for out of state students. When they move here to attend college Virginia companies have a chance to recruit them.
Major companies need a well educated work force.
Of course it's about the money
The school can't operate and happy thoughts and the state has less money to go around.
school funding
If McDonnell continues to cut the budget on our schools none of our kids will have GPA's high enough to get into ANY college anywhere! My child has had straight A's for the past 6 years. Has taken the SAT's and ACT's many many times. The first 2 times did not even come CLOSE to what the colleges are looking for.....this is a student with straight A's now. We finally came out of pocket to have our child placed in classes to bring those scores up! Even with hundreds of hours of volunteer services, 5 years of sports with 4 being Varsity for 3 different sports, AP courses, you name it this child has it. Still could NOT get in to the 1st pick of colleges. The reason for the 1st pick was to rid us of housing cost. our child could of stayed home to attend college. Now were faced with paying for housing. Our children are making good grades and still can not make a high enough score on these tests and still can not get into our top universities! Glad I didn't vote for McDonnell!
Are you an Idiot or didn't
Are you an Idiot or didn't you notice that the last eight were Democratic administrations, So for the last month(one month) it's the republicans fault.
don't dumb down UVA
UVA is the top state university in the nation.
Putting a "cap" on admitting the best students would profoundly hurt the school. It's not the 1800's anymore. 2/3 of the students are Virginians, which seems reasonable to me and helps maintain UVA as a top-tier university.
Hugo should leave the schools alone
unless he will also implement legislation to make up the budget shortfalls for these schools. While this is feel-good legislation, it would likely do more harm to VA universities than good. As for some other posters attacking the salaries of some of these presidents, the schools need to pay well to compete with other schools in attracting and retaining talent.
all about the money?
Yes it is all about they money anyone who thinks that it's not is mistaken. While some in state students are not admitted to their first choice of colleges there are many other options. For those that want to limit the amount of out of state students come up with a plan to make up the difference that the schools will lose. So many parents get upset that their children will not attend the same school that they did. Just having a 4.0 GPA does not guarantee your admission to your first choice. Colleges look for a well rounded student so if you have a 4.0 with no extra curricular activities you may not be what schools are looking for. Advice to parents encourage your students to get good grades but also to have varied interests to make them stand out when it comes to being admitted.
double standard
So, good students in Virginia only get so many slots to get into these schools while out of state students get a better advantage of getting in. Seems to me since the taxpayers fund many of these schools that Virginia students should have first right of refusal. Plus what is with this exemption on certain schools, that does not make a level playing field across the board. It is a shame that Virginia students who do well in high school are then refused admittance to the college of their choice because there are not enough slots. Perhaps the Universities should reduce the million dollar salaries to the presidents of these colleges, that is one way to save money, and they are certainly not worth it.
Out of State
Where does it say that state supported Va schools must provide education to out of state students? Out of state students probably do not stay in the state after completing the education. We need quality schools for chidren of Va taxpayers so we have more highly educated people in the state. Attracts business. Another spineless move by spineless politians.
Schools for Virginians
It is too bad these cap bills could not get through committee. The top schools need to make room for more Virginians. This is all about the money it seems.
Why cap, increase enrollment
Why cap how many out-of-state students? It would be better to increase the enrollment. This would allow the money from out-of-state students to remain there as well as qualified in-state students to get a seat as well. And, this will better the international and national reputation of the universities as well has help promote diversity.
It's not ALL about the money
If we limit enrollment at our major universities to in-state students, they will become "state" universities. If we want them to be national universities, we have to be willing to accept a fair number of national students. UVa has been the number 1 or 2 public university in the nation for as long as I can remember, and they do it in part because of the quality and diversity of students they enroll from around the country. Let's don't screw that up.
really
aside from it all being about money; "lets don't screw that up" really? is this what UVA taught? I sure hope not.