The Virginian-Pilot
©
NORFOLK
Almost a year and a half after a developer approached the city offering to run Waterside and turn the struggling facility into a public market, a panel of experts has recommended a similar plan.
In a report to City Council, the panel last week suggested turning the city-owned waterfront complex over to a private developer and using its first floor for a market, with the second floor and other areas serving as a banquet hall, restaurants and nightclubs.
"It's interesting to see that independently, someone has come up with the same direction for the building," said Michael Divaris, president of Divaris Real Estate, which suggested a similar plan in 2009.
But even as experts have recommended selling local fish, vegetables and produce out of the building, Divaris and others have started to wonder whether that is the right move.
The closing of Farm Fresh's Market at Harbor Heights over the past weekend signals that the customer base for a downtown grocery might not exist.
"The problem with Waterside is it's cut off from the people," said Bev Sell, general manager of Five Points Community Farm Market on Church Street. "You need to be in a community for a farm market. That message is hammered home with Farm Fresh.
"No one is going to go pay for parking to buy produce."
Divaris said he was disappointed to see the Farm Fresh fail, given his company's idea for a public market at Waterside. He added that the idea might need to be rethought.
"One does need to do a little homework to make sure there is the demand for this type of facility," Divaris said. "One questions the concept when you see there wasn't enough public support for a high-end grocer downtown."
Waterside, nearly 30 years old, is now more than half empty. Several nightclubs and restaurants have closed or moved away in recent years, and sales are down. To tackle the question of the building's future, the city surveyed residents and this fall hired five urban planning experts to study the building.
Some community groups, including the Downtown Norfolk Council, have pushed for demolishing Waterside to make way for new development. But the experts decided that tearing down Waterside would "remove a community icon... and create an aura of uncertainty about the future of the waterfront."
Instead, they recommended a private developer take over the facility and create a public produce and dry goods market similar to Seattle's Pike Place Market or Baltimore's Lexington Market.
Downtown Norfolk Council Chairwoman Donna Phaneuf said turning the facility over to private developers would be "a shift in the right direction" toward recreating Waterside as a thriving economic engine.
But Sell said one problem with the experts' plan was that the public markets they pointed to are more than 100 years old, with an established history and place in the downtown community. Creating a market from scratch, she said, would be difficult at best.
"I think everybody has this fantasy about a cute little farm market," she said. "But farm markets are not money makers - they're community-builders. You need to be in the thick of things."
Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot has suggested temporarily moving the city's human services department into the second floor of Waterside once the lease on its privately owned building runs out in August.
The move, Burfoot said, would bring a stable base of people to Waterside each day, and the rent savings would provide the city with cash to help finance renovations to the building.
"Anybody who's looking to go into that building long term wants to know: Will people come?" Burfoot said. "Three hundred people for a lunch crowd would be a tremendous boost to businesses there."
Councilman Barclay C. Winn said the proposal is one the council needs to consider but that he'd like to hold off on serious discussions until the new city manager, Marcus Jones, starts in February.
Meghan Hoyer, (757) 446-2293, meghan.hoyer@pilotonline.com

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My Wish
Tear down the left side of waterside where outback sit now and jillians use to occupy. Build 4 to 5 floors worth of space laced with escalators and elevators. Add a connection to the sheraton. Fill in the sorry fountain area that Sheraton owns and build a 1 store facility or a permeant skating ring. Then, clean/clear and build up the water front near harbor park, build pier sport bars and/or restaurants and soften the area in a way it connects. Then from there, contract different entertainment to play in waterside. Piano players, ballet, table tennis matches, anything. Build out the back to the water's edge and build out to a few more feet to waterside drive.
Translation
> "Several nightclubs and restaurants have closed or moved away in recent years."
Another way to say this would be: "Several nightclubs and restaurants were forcibly shut down by the City of Norfolk in recent years."
Some history
If I remember correctly Waterside, when originally opened, was a curiosity magnet for people looking for something different. The "Fudgery", kiosks, specialty stores, great eating places, (Pierces BBQ comes to mind) Live entertainment in the open space, and all sorts of innovative things and places. It could have been a local version of Ghirardelli Square, in SF. Then the new wore off, people realized there was no good place to park, the businesses started leaving, and the whole atmosphere deteriorated. Now, unless some has an inspirational flash of genius, I forsee the place being torn down, and perhaps a large marina complex, kind of like what was at Jack London Square in Oakland taking over. This might be a good thing.
As someone stated they
As someone stated they remembered coming and enjoying the show and eating the expensive food. yeah it was good and a different variety you can have that without the extreme expense. We need some real people to speak on this decision making and not all of these pocket grabbers trying to make themselves rich or at least get a cut of everything. They are elected and we voted for this mess and this is what we have but we are a city and can pull together. We do not need another hotel, banquet facility, park, parking garage or club. We need activities and restaurants and Norfolk Mermaid stuff being sold, balloons being blown by clowns, icecream, characters, plays, piano playing, singing, movies, wine tasting, free weekend parking and fun.
We agree
But I think me and you are the only ones who feel that way, everyone else does not seem to connect the dots. Like we both stated, in the 80s, it was just that. I do not understand why people can not see that parking/ let me be clear, paying to park is a big deal. If you do that, then it must be worth it. Curiosity is the word I think you used, PERFECT for what waterside once was. You have to recreate that magic. Clubs worked, jillians worked, because it was different and it was worth paying to have that fun. Outback and Joes gets the fall out of that because people could go somewhere else and park for free. You rarely find loyalist, especially when taxes and fees are beating you down. Bring back the public entertainment
Everyone seems to be on the
Everyone seems to be on the same page about making it an epicenter of the city. well sorry Im on the fence with the club thing see club, kids, family just do not mix well. Also it depends on the type of club if you need security you do not need families. then again it could be the place to be if run properly and sectioned away form the park and families. Dinner dancing type not dancing on the bar get drunk and thrown out to sit by the kids. well the club thing poses a problem wasnt the purple palace coming to downtown in order to make sure it flourished we had to close up the other clubs. I wonder who on city council and NRHA was benefitting from that. We have to know who the players are then you know the answers.
Epicenter
It is a good general idea if you ask me. Its plenty urban and allows for a lot of different things to take place without affecting the other parts and types. I think the cool thing was that you could have an urban balling alley here, then a bar their, sports bar here, movies there, restaurants, etc.. Remember this, waterside for the most part was open for 24hrs at one point, OPEN. Without activities, the bums move in. Family is great, but consider what happens with families, they are on their way home at 8/9. So what does that mean for the weekend and late hours. if the suggestion is then close it at 8, then you are right, give it to the developers and make condos because its more worth in that, then to make a venue that closes at 8.
Chinese Water Torture
History (80s) is repeating itself downtown, as businesses close one by one. None being a huge issue on it's own, but as more and more vacant storefronts appear downtown, and landlords no longer are able to fill them quickly, downtown will again slowly, become a ghost town. Residents will move out, and property values will plummet. Only a few years ago vacancies were quickly filled with new businesses, now they go vacant. You can blame the economy, but residents are voting with their wheels and shopping elsewhere for whatever reasons. Thus there are not enough customers to support downtown businesses.
Tear it Down
Tearing it down is definitely not the best thing to do, especially if you do not have anything to replace it. That same thought process is what killed Norfolk in the 50s and 60s. If not for that thinking, we would be a top 20 metro in the USA. SOME of us noted that the fresh seafood market was not a winning solution to waterside's problems, and now with the closing of "The Market", I guess we can now see who was right..hmmm. PIKE'S like place won't do it, I'm wondering if any would reply.
No, you should have left it how it was, clubs, then focused on the family/community aspect for daytime hours and weekends. One thing is for sure, the parking deck is a situation that must be considered, it must be worth paying to park...
Before a tear down
Let me explain my club thought. First, its nothing wrong with clubs, I do not drink, but I see why clubs are important to a segment in society. Two:, there are all types of clubs, I love a piano bar personally.
And there is also enough space to suit all goers at waterside. What they should have done was focus on how to bring the family friendly that a lot of people want during the daylight hours and focus on the adult stuff at night. But because they were not able to do that, waterside crashed even further. Waterside wasn't grand in the 80s, it was just new, new stuff dies if you do not pay to keep it interesting. Yeah, people talk about the fudge place, but waterside was also a destination then, understand the difference???/