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Fresh Va. Tech tragedy renews political gun debate

Posted to: Crime Education News Virginia Tech Virginia

By Bob Lewis

BLACKSBURG

Thursday's point-blank slaying of a Virginia Tech campus policeman is sure to renew the gun control battle in all its fury before the General Assembly next month.

The debate had quieted somewhat in the nearly five years since a student on a murderous rampage shot and killed 32 people at Virginia Tech.

But with Republicans expecting House and Senate majorities and a pro-gun Republican governor, conservatives are taking aim at Virginia's 20-year-old one-handgun-a-month law. Only three other states still have such a law.

"Our agenda is fairly active this year," Philip Van Cleave told The Associated Press on Saturday as students placed flowers at an impromptu memorial to slain officer Deriek Crouse in a parking lot beside Tech's famed football stadium.

Van Cleave's organization, the Virginia Citizens Defense League, and its gun-toting disciples who converge on Capitol Square each winter will lobby to prevent state agencies — including colleges — from banning guns on campus.

Also, prospects of closing Virginia's so-called gun show loophole appear to have slipped from slim to nil.

The day before Crouse was killed, the Defense League rallied on the campus of Radford University, about 12 miles from Virginia Tech. That was the day Crouse's killer, Ross Truett Ashley, a quiet 22-year-old part-time student at Radford, staged an armed robbery across the street from Radford's campus and stole the 2011 Mercedes-Benz that he abandoned on a road near Tech's campus.

For Van Cleave, the issue is simple. Free, law-abiding people have a fundamental right guaranteed in the Constitution to carry firearms to defend themselves and their homes.

"Our belief is that you have to protect yourself from crime. It again just reminds everybody that there's some awfully vicious people out there," Van Cleave said.

Among the most forceful voices against Van Cleave and his group are those who lost loved ones at Tech in 2007. And they face their hardest session ever before a Legislature more beholden to the gun lobby than any in modern times.

Even when Democrats ruled the General Assembly, Virginia's pro-gun laws were among the most permissive in the country. Reverence for the 2nd Amendment only increased with the burgeoning Republican dominance. And rural Democrats — a vanishing breed in Virginia's Legislature — are still overwhelmingly pro-gun, a requisite for getting elected outside urban and suburban areas.

Besides the monthly single-pistol limitation and the guns-on-campus initiative, gun-rights forces hope to advance bills that would make it even easier to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons, eliminate state background checks, broaden the legal principle that allows people in their homes to shoot intruders and keep guns of unlimited firepower free of government oversight as long as they are wholly built in Virginia and never taken beyond its borders.

"All of these measures threaten law enforcement. They put law enforcement in danger," said Lori Haas, whose relentless efforts to restrict gun access began after her daughter Emily was shot in the head during Seung-Hui Cho's one-man massacre at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007.

Little is yet known about what drove Ashley to shoot Crouse as he wrote someone else a traffic ticket shortly after noon Thursday, then to use the same gun to kill himself minutes later.

Haas doubts last week's events will change anything in the 2012 Legislature, no matter the circumstances behind Tech's latest gun violence. House Speaker Bill Howell, R-Stafford, agreed.

"I don't think it will make a big difference one way or another," Howell said.

Maybe, Haas says, what matters isn't the number of people slain by those who never should have access to guns, but who those people are — particularly whether they're close to state policymakers.

"Are we going to wait to react when it's one of their colleagues, their loved ones, their family members?" she said. "Frankly, 'how many have to be killed to get their attention' hasn't worked."

"It's just shocking to me how legislators just pander to the leadership to the gun lobby," she said.

Andrew Goddard, whose son Colin was wounded during Cho's 2007 rampage, said it's time lawmakers paid at least as much attention to those who wear badges and face the risk of gun violence every day as they do to pro-gun lobbyists. Perhaps Crouse's slaying gives that message more currency.

"When our police officers go to the General Assembly and say something about public safety, they should listen to them," Goddard said.

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VA Tech and Gun Rights

Again, the liberal slant of this paper supersedes the traditions of good journalism. When will the Pilot tell the story without its opinion permeating the piece. This journalist has missed the boat again. The Second Amendment was put in place to protect not just an individual person but every person's right to bear arms & protect this great country, whether it be from a threat from outside our country or from within. Our forefathers put this amendment in the Constitution as a protection against corrupt leaders and now there are those who feel this amendment needs to be torn apart. What does that say about those leaders? We need this Amendment to stay intact and let those who murder such as this shooter be prosecuted for his crimes.

Yet another analysis, from

Yet another analysis, from 2008, from the University of Melbourne, concluded that the buyback had no significant effect on firearm suicide or homicide rates.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/

So you too are correcting your earlier post that crime went up!!

Bravo. A mea culpa for your earlier disinformation.

From your link, which happens to the link that i provided earlier.

~~~

Q: Did gun control in Australia lead to more murders there last year?

A: This ‘Gun History Lesson’ is recycled bunk from a decade ago. Murders in Australia actually are down to record lows.

So what? Australia, Wales, etc. have nothing to do with anything

regarding the Second Amendment. The gun-hate groups still are stinging from their devastating losses in the U.S. Supreme Court cases of District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago, rulings that affirmed the Second Amendment is an enumerated Right for law-abiding people. The Second Amendment hate groups are practicing that old lawyer tactic: When the facts are against you, argue the law; when the law is against you, argue the facts; when both the facts and the law are against you, pound on the table. Gun-haters can keep pounding the table all they want, they won't succeed in using the acts of criminals to take Rights from law-abiding people. Not in America.

Comment deleted

Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Personal attack, name calling

Australia Ban of firearms 12 month review

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly
At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"
Says it all.....

The Aussie Government refuted these statistics...

... when the NRA first put them out and they have asked the NRA to remove all references to Australia from its website.

"I find it quite offensive that the NRA is using the very successful gun reform laws introduced in 1996 as the basis for promoting ownership of firearms in the United States," Williams said.

FactCheck Dot Org takes aim

http://tinyurl.com/manf4d

Have murders increased since the gun law change, as claimed? Actually, Australian crime stat show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change... the # of homicides... declined to the lowest # on record in 2007.

Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Conclusions: 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large # of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides & firearm suicides.

So I guess now..

you can have the lawful advantage of carrying a knife to knife fight and still come out the winner there. Yeah right, I'd still rather have my gun. I guess stabbings , firebombings and assault by mobs aren't criminal charges worth reporting there either. Just the gun. I can tell you as a retired police officer, it's not always the gun. Butter knives, pens, pencils, baseball bats, clubs, tire irons, hands,feet,oh and the harmless car rank pretty high up there. But I guess because you have to get close up then that doesn't count with the aforementioned.

"But I guess because you have to get close up"

Bingo! Congrats. You DO have to get up close if you dont have a gun at the ready. You have to physically engage someone with other weapons besides a gun. Guns make is exponentially easier to rob or murder someone. You do NOT have to "get up close" with a gun. Having to get up close -- using a knife "pens, pencils, bats, etc" -- is surely a deterrent for the AMOUNT of crimes being committed.

Back to my point -- correcting the other poster's false assertion that crime went up -- crime went down in Australia.

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