■ 28 December 2011 | 5:00 AM
Ill-timed ill will
Re 'Celebration of sin,' letters, Dec. 24: Rather than pushing ill will and loathing during this season of joy and rebirth, it's sad to see a local pastor make such disparaging remarks ('I almost vomited') about two young women kissing on a pier. Billions of people do this every day show affection toward someone they love. I'm appalled by the pastor's comments, and I hope his anger toward two young women he probably never met does not reflect the thinking and kindness of all those who worship with him.
Jane Massey
Norfolk
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Have you?
Have you met them? Are they your friends?
No, I have not met either woman.
No, I have not met either woman. My letter was directed at the pastor and his over-the-top hateful and seemingly hate-filled comments. I know people make those kinds of comments about this or that all the time, but it is a bit shocking to hear those things come from someone who is a leader in a house of worship.
ms. Massey
I agree, the words were over the top, but you are doing here just what you are condemning him for by using over the top language.
Until I read the comments following the LTE and now all of today's LTEs there was no indication this writer was anything but a letter writer. The letter was not signed by a member of any clergy, but rather by someone who had retired from the Navy.
It is only those of you who have no tolerance for those of faith who have made an issue of his relation to a church. His letter was that of a retired service member, not a clergy member.
Excuse me?
I have 'no tolerance for those of faith'? Where did you get that from?
He signed his name, followed by: "Pastor, Bayview Baptist Church, Norfolk" I think you might have missed something.
As for tolerance, I have plenty. But, not for a pastor who leads people in prayer on Sunday, then very publicly writes hateful things about two young women on another day. Maybe that's your kind of spiritual leader, but not mine.
Some of us
have no tolerance for bigotry. It is not a legitimate opinion and it causes others harm.
No Tolerance
Is it bigotry to say what one's religious faith teaches?
Pastor Paulk argued his theology. You are free to have other opinions and express them, but to accuse someone of bigotry on the basis of theological belief is a stretch.
For all you or I know, the theological perspective holds a grain of truth. To say otherwise is to be not tolerant of a different point of view from the one you hold.
What strikes me most is your assertion that Pastor Paulk's letter "is not a legitimate opinion and it causes others harm."
Not a legitimate opinion?
Who says? You?
Gimme a break. YOUR kind of thinking is totalitarian and far, far from liberal.
You said, "Is it bigotry to
You said, "Is it bigotry to say what one's religious faith teaches?"
Sometimes, yes.
The Bible endorses prejudice against race, nationality, religion, sex, and sexual orientation.
I have chapter and verse, if you want.
The Qu'ran has its own issues. Anti-Semitism. Prejudice against Christians. To name a few.
And the bigotry also extends beyond doctrine to practice.
The Puzzle
RE: "The Bible endorses prejudice against race, nationality, religion, sex, and sexual orientation."
You can cite all the Bible verses you want, but I do not believe this particular statement is true.
The puzzle is to perform careful exegesis of the text, then to evaluate the concepts one finds in light of multiple contexts.
One context is the literal. Another is the allegorical. Another is the metaphysical. Another is the mystical.
And yet another context is the initiatory one, which is a teaching process.
Unless you -- or I -- are masters of all these contexts, then we are incompetent to offer sweeping judgements about the nature of truth and reality.
Better that we should find something useful to do in daily life, such as greeting customers at Walmart.
You say that sometimes religious faith teaches bigotry.
I think it is true that sometimes students learn bigotry from religious teaching.
But I would say, too, that theological ideas which may look like bigotry deserve more caution in analysis than they tend to receive in our time.
I can't argue for truth, but I do argue for caution in analysis.
You said, "You can cite all
You said, "You can cite all the Bible verses you want, but I do not believe this particular statement is true."
Proof of a closed mind.
And proof of what I said week ago about how religion poisons minds.
According to Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Does this verse command the killing of homosexuals or not?
If it does, then the Bible, as I said, supports prejudice, indeed murder, based on sexual orientation.
If if doesn't, because it is to be interpreted metaphysically or in some other way (I am aware of the differing ways to interpret--I have a minor in Bible from an evangelical university and wrote my MA thesis on differing interpretations of the Eucharist) then EVERY KILLING of homosexuals that was justified by this verse is blood on God's hands.
Why? Because God was apparently too inept a communicator to let his people know what they were supposed to do, and those who have murdered homosexuals because of this verse were unaware that God did not actually mean what God apparently said.
Funny also how God did not tell the writers of Scripture how they were to interpret the words he "breathed" to them. If it were so important, wouldn't God have provided some more guidance? Interpret this literally, that passage figuratively, etc?
Either way, your God is pathetic.
that's a little harsh dude
You made great points (proof of a closed mind / And proof of what I said week ago about how religion poisons minds) and you destroyed Mr. Roberts sorry argument, but you kinda spoiled it a little bit with that gratuitous remark - "Either way, your God is pathetic."
Mr. Bowman, I'm a fan of your logic, but sorrry dude, I think that was a little harsh. =(