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ACLU warns on prayers at N.C. legislature meetings

Posted to: News North Carolina

By Tom Breen

RALEIGH, N.C.

Bolstered by a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision not to intervene in a case involving prayer at government meetings, the North Carolina chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union warned the General Assembly Thursday to curtail religion-specific invocations at its sessions.

"We recommend that you adopt a policy to ensure that the NCGA halts the practice of opening sessions with sectarian invocations," Katy Parker, the group's legal director, wrote in a letter to Attorney General Roy Cooper, whose office represents state government in legal matters.

One prominent North Carolina pastor sees the letter as the first sign of wider consequences from a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court to let stand an appeals court's ban on sectarian prayer at meetings of the Forsyth County Board of Commission.

"This is a radical interpretation, an extreme interpretation, of the First Amendment," said the Rev. Mark Creech, director of the Christian Action League.

Parker's letter says the group has received complaints from lawmakers and other citizens about Christian prayers being offered in both the House and Senate. While the Supreme Court has ruled that prayer before legislative bodies is constitutional, Parker's letter says that prayers favoring a specific religion violate the First Amendment's prohibition on government-favored faith.

"The NCGA is still permitted to open its sessions with a prayer, so long as the prayer is nonsectarian," Parker wrote.

In the legislature, each day's floor meetings of the House and Senate start with a prayer, although the two chambers handle it differently.

In the Senate, permanent chaplain the Rev. Peter Milner often invokes Jesus in his opening prayers. In the House, Speaker Thom Tillis hasn't appointed a chaplain, in a departure from previous practice. Instead, individual lawmakers have been invited to lead the prayers. Many representatives conclude their prayers by saying "in Jesus' name," while others have mentioned only God.

A flap arose over House prayers in 2010 when a Baptist minister complained he was asked by a chamber clerk not to refer to Jesus in his prayers. For many years, the House had requested, but not required, that guest chaplains deliver nonsectarian prayers.

Asking lawmakers to say prayers has made the invocations more inconsistent than when the House had its own chaplain, said Rep. Deborah Ross, D-Wake, who frequently leads prayers using a book of nonsectarian invocations given to her by a minister's wife.

"The chaplain always gave nonsectarian prayers, and the chaplain had his finger on the pulse of what was going on at the General Assembly," she said. "I don't know that when members do it they actually think about the good of the whole. Some members do, and some members just get up and preach."

Calls to House Speaker Thom Tillis and Senate President Pro Tempore Phil Berger were not immediately returned Thursday. Cooper's office plans to share the letter with the leadership of the General Assembly so that lawmakers are aware of the group's concerns, spokeswoman Noelle Talley said.

The letter cites the U.S. Supreme Court decision last month not to hear an appeal of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in the Forsyth County case. The decision affects not just local governments, but also the General Assembly, Parker wrote.

The ability to offer nonsectarian prayers is of dubious worth, Creech said, to Christians who don't believe in a non-specific deity, but rather in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

"We question whether our prayer is even heard unless it's offered in his name and for his sake," he said.

Associated Press writer Gary Robertson contributed to this report.

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I think that if...

the ACLU known to many as the American Communist Lawyers Union has the right to not want a prayer or religion anywhere then they can plug their ears, close their eyes and mumble to themselves. Like many have the right to pray and exercise their religion. Why should one be intrusive on the other? If one can't tolerate then don't participate.

I think we've pretty much

I think we've pretty much established via this thread that Christianity is a hate group.

i would think..

...that a prayer to ones God (whatever God has been chosen) to be a deeply moving and personal act that would be silently performed in solitude. On the other hand if one wants to stand up in front of a crowd and crow about thier piety, I, personally think that is just wrong.

I'm a rarity - a right-leaning libertarian atheist

I also recognize that I live in a country that is overwhelmingly Christian in terms of percentage of adherents. I spent 20 years in the Army, where chaplains gave prayers on all sorts of occasions. You know what I did? I bowed my head out of respect for the people who believe and thought about other things. Somehow I escaped unscathed. I really see no harm in the assembly starting off its session with a prayer if it gives the large majority of them comfort to do so. Those who don't believe can sit there and do Sudoku puzzles or something.

How long?

Wonder when the aclu(not capitalized on purpose)will demand that we can't have churches because someone might see the cross and feel violated or threatened? I probably shouldn't joke about it. Who would have ever thought we could have sunk this low as a country? I guess with these aclu clowns running loose anything is possible. Please don't tell me it has already happened because my church is in violation of some God-hater's 666th amendment rights. I would say as I close that I would pray for them but I might get sued. I'll just leave it in God's hands.

The ACLU has defended and advocated for

more religions to practice and profess their faith than you can count.

And most were Christian.

You should be thankful for such an organization that has done so much for the individual to stand up to governmental tyranny.

http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

NCGA - do not back down

No better example to have than Ben Franklin.

“I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel”
― Benjamin Franklin

FREEDOM OF SPEECH

What has happened to our "Freedom of Speech"? Why can't we pray when and where we want to without the ACLU putting their nose into what this country was found on?

The ACLU has got to be the most corrupt group I've ever heard of. They stand up for everything the majority thinks is wrong, so they can make headlines.

The American public needs to stand together on this one big time, and protect our rights. Obama let the Muslim's Pray on WH property, but abandoned National Day of Prayer, does it tell you something when ACLU didn't stand up for us???

ACLU has got to be the most corrupt group I've ever heard of

acorn and the dnc is giving them a run for their money

Balance

Everyone has rights. This includes those who do not wish to listen to these prayers, but are often forced to by a majority who believes that if they are fine with it, the feelings of the minority are meaningless. The same founding fathers that provide a freedom of speech also wrote of freedom of religion, which is also construed as freedom from religion. Also, the same writers warned of the tyranny of the majority in The Federalist Papers. In most cases, the ACLU will not object to these types of actions if the prayer is not presented by a single group or sect. Just curious, but what would happen in NC if they elected to have a Muslim Imam provide a prayer? Would the same calls for freedom of speech and freedom or religion still ring out?

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