The Virginian-Pilot
©
NORFOLK
Norfolk Naval Station's vital infrastructure wouldn't survive the kind of powerful storms and widescale flooding that rising seawaters are expected to bring by the second half of the century. And those conditions would likely get even worse in the following decades.
That's the conclusion of a three-year case study of the naval base, conducted by the Army Corps of Engineers, which analyzed computer storm models based on varying degrees of sea level rise.
It was one of four government-funded studies conducted nationwide to assess the impact of sea levels rising as much as 6 feet over the next 85 years.
"Military bases... are designed to be able to withstand hurricanes and flooding and that type of thing - to some extent," said Kelly Burks-Copes, a Corps of Engineers research ecologist who led the study of the base. She spoke during an interview this week after presenting the findings at a conference at Old Dominion University.
"But there was a growing concern that the military's infrastructure was no longer sustainable in the face of exacerbated storms and that climate change was likely to cause frequent storms, stronger storms, even if they are infrequent, more flooding," she said. "And they needed the questions asked: What were the risks and if there were risks, were there ways to reduce the risks?"
The results drive home the immensity of the challenge the Navy faces preparing for a long-term threat as budget crises and government shutdowns undermine even short-term planning.
"It's so hard to think decades out when I think most of the time they are just trying to get to Friday," said retired Rear Adm. David Titley, who was the Navy's oceanographer and founding director of the service's task force on climate change. Titley, who now directs a center on climate change at Penn State, was a keynote speaker at the conference. "But at some point, you gotta do it."
The study, begun in 2009, examined the impacts of five types of storms on Norfolk Naval Station based on varying increments of sea level rise up to about 6 feet.
In all, it modeled 25 storms.
The team mapped the base down to 30-foot grid sections and documented every piece of infrastructure, Burks-Copes said.
"We asked whether the base could withstand the forcings that were coming out of these storms - the winds, the surge, the waves and the flooding," she said. "Can the buildings withstand that? Can the electricity withstand that? Can the water supply withstand that?"
The study also demonstrated how reliant the base's systems are on civilian infrastructure outside its gates - and fostered discussions between local officials and military leaders.
The results found that at some point between a 1.5-foot and 3-foot rise of the sea, the Navy base - and much of Hampton Roads - would be submerged for hours or even days by a big storm. Without proper planning, the base would be unable to function.
The study identified weak points that can help the Navy plan as it replaces aging equipment and infrastructure, Burks-Copes said.
It can also help the Navy avoid spending money on short-sighted options that will force more spending down the road.
For example, since 2001, the Navy has been building expensive double-deck piers in Norfolk that are supposed to last for decades. They protect the utilities on the lower decks from water damage - based on current sea levels. That works now, she said, but because they weren't designed to address climate change, they won't be usable as long as expected.
Terri Davis, a spokeswoman for Norfolk Naval Station, said the base is designed to withstand significant storm surge, "which affords us the opportunity to be methodical and deliberate in our approach to long-term sea level rise."
Sea level rise will be a problem for some naval bases in the future, "but it is not an immediate crisis," Davis said, adding that the corps' study, and others, will inform future plans for the base.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration predicts that sea level will rise from 1.5 feet to more than 6 feet by 2100, Titley said. He said about 3 feet is the likeliest scenario, a figure that could serve as a starting point as Navy officials plan for the future.
Average global temperatures have risen 2 degrees since the mid- to late 1800s, and sea levels have climbed a foot. With melting glaciers and ice sheets, the trend could speed up.
In 2009, Titley compiled data for the Navy on what climate change means for the service. He was pleasantly surprised, he said, by how receptive the leadership was.
Still, with costs that likely will climb into the trillions, the challenges of meeting the threat are formidable.
Even if the Navy does little now, it can use the study findings to plan what needs to be done, said Titley, who retired from the Navy 13 months ago.
"What is our backup if you lose Norfolk?" he asked. "What's plan B?"
Mayport Naval Station in Florida couldn't accommodate all of Norfolk's ships, and after rounds of base closings in recent decades, there are fewer Navy bases to choose from. Unlike the Army or the Air Force, which could just pull back and build an airfield farther inland, the Navy won't have those options.
"These questions are not or should not go away," Titley said. "The Navy will be front and center in dealing with this option whether it wants it or not."
Dianna Cahn, 757-222-5846, dianna.cahn@pilotonline.com


To those in the know
Duh.
The Facts are Evident
After reading ALL of the postings as of midnite Saturday it's clear to distinguish the 'science believers' from the 'science deniers'.
And to say it is easy to see which uses logic and reasoning versus those who can't see beyond the end of their own nose is .... well, an understandment!
Plan B: exodus
Pat's not going to be around forever you know.
Big storm
When we have big storms the base already has problems functioning because no one can get to it. This area is sinking and the seas are rising. Maybe Richmond Beach will be the happening spot for all the tourists by 2100.
Who didn't know NAS Norfolk Could be flooded over?
We known it for years, yet since the aircraft fly and the ships float, they are your "base".
How much
How much are we the tax payers shelling out for this bit of news that a 6th grade science class at any Hampton Roads Middle School could have taken on as a semester project and come up with the same results.
How to Convince the Flat Earthers the Hard Truth?
Most of the political culture within the ranks do not believe in relatively recent climate change and sea level rise.
Many scientists point to natural ice ages as the culprit and dismiss any man-made impact.
Al Gore's 400 PPM tipping point of CO2 in the air was exceeded last year, but he's not taken seriously because he's a former politician and not believed by many.
“There are three stages of scientific discovery: first people deny it is true; then they deny it is important; finally they credit the wrong person.” Alexander von Humboldt
And the increase in the ice at the South Pole is what?
Point to sea rise due to melting ice in the north pole - surely a concern to that environment. But explain, please, why the south pole is experiencing such a rapid rate of expanding ice? You will have to excuse me, I have witnessed scientists with ideological slants or specific theories design computer models to prove their point. Astronomy has suffered mightily in the past because of these "sure bets." I'm all for considering global effects of pollution, etc. I'm even in favor of balancing out our reliance on fossil fuels. But you tell me how you are going to convince other more densely populated nations who are in a race to overcome our economy - like China, India, Indonesia, etc. Answers, please, or beyond your pay grade?
Comment deleted
Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Personal attack, name calling
America leads not follows
We should be developing clean technologies and selling them to the Chinese, Indians, and Indonesians. But we are letting our manufacturing sector die and exporting it to China, India and Indonesia. Our climate is in a slow death spiral and we are doing little to stop it.
I agree with Joanm thee is
I agree with Joanm thee is nothing wrong with doing what we reasonably can to help the environment, but to destroy economies or create a market sector that is not really feasible is ridiculous. By the hybrid and you may save on gas but that is it, your electric bill will increase and the power company will crank out a little more carbon to supply the electricity or a little more depleted uranium fuel rods but you will feel good.
Hybrids don't consume
Hybrids don't consume electricity from the power company. You might test drive one or at least read Consumer Reports.
Not entirely true. There are "Plug In" Hybrids...
Their distinguishing characteristic is a significantly enlarged battery that permits the electric driving range to swell beyond the mile or two possible with regular hybrids. It also provides a way to plug the battery into an electrical outlet for recharging while parked.
I wish there were a
I wish there were a realistic number out there. How many would you guess exist in Hampton Roads?
That was an increase of thin ice and snow... Not to Last
That's what the fossil fuel Industry reported on their side of the story and keeps pushing.
We can't explain away 100 year storms happening every 80 days somewhere in the World.
The upper jet streams are changing as is ocean acidity and on top of that the area is sinking!
Snow is really more precipitation not a measure of coldness change in climate.
Al Gore?
It’s not that Ol’ Al is not taken seriously because he is an ex pres, but rather maybe it’s that while he was promoting his move and getting paid huge amounts of money for speaking on the subject of climate change, (using his ex pres credentials of course), he was buying stock in green energy companies and getting filthy rich doing it. And don’t forget his hypocritical green foot print rhetoric, all the while purchasing mega mansions, yachts, and wasn’t there a Learjet? And let's not forget the killing he made in the Al Jazeera America deal. REALLY, "but he's not taken seriously because he's a former politician and not believed by many", Poor Ol'good ol’ Al, can't get any respect.
I wonder if he has a house on the water? Bet he does.
Good one
Al Gore got rich from those green companies, many of which went bust?
You think they went bust.
You think they went bust. Most survived and paid back their debts. : )
But that is not what the
But that is not what the climate change deniers would have us believe.
In April of 1977, Time
In April of 1977, Time Magazine outlined what must be done to “Survive the Coming Ice Age.”
By 2001, Climate Change, Inc. reversed course and told us that Planet Earth was now heating up. Accordingly, the lap dogs at Time release a cover depicting Planet Earth in a frying pan.
Fast forward to the present and the left relabeled their “crisis” as Climate Change.
You simply cannot make this stuff up. But make no mistake, this matter has NOTHING to do with the climate, it is about raising taxes and imposing regulations on the American people that strangle free enterprise and personal liberty. The left dreams of legions of hostile government bureaucrats to enforce strict, complex laws with rigorous military precision. Can you say Fascism?
In 1977 there were three
In 1977 there were three scientists who came up with and agreed on the ice age theory, today there are thousands who are in agreement with climate change. Obviously some people can't comprehend that difference.
Time Magazine a Real Source of Scienfific Knowledge
Is that the same Mag that put Putin on the cover and made him man of the year?
The Clean Water Act was only 3 years old. Earth Day was only a couple years old.
I find it odd that we did not have one TS of note this year when they were calling for 11 named Storms?
This we do know, 100 year storms are happening about every 80 days somewhere around the world.
Time Magazine a Real Source
Time Magazine a Real Source of Scienfific Knowledge
Forgive me for not citing Algore as my "real source of scientific knowledge."
I always thought he was the guy that invented the internet and was unaware that he also invented climate change science.
He Signed the Bill to Open Internet for Commercial Use
Then claimed to have invented it. Different Story!
How to convince the "flat earthers?" Well, for a start
you don't convince anyone by calling them names, especially when a lot of them are far more qualified on the subject than you are.
Al Gore's 400PPM tipping point has been surpassed many times in the past, and the H2O and Methane feedback loops he warns of did not happen then, so why would we believe they will happen this time?
The only consistent explanation for those past events is that the sensitivity of the climate to CO2 is only about half the value used in the IPCC models.
Even the IPCC has adjusted their sensitivity values downward in the latest assessment.
We skeptics are consistently being proved to have been correct with every new peer reviewed study.
Global Warming...
...remember how the public just couldn't wrap their minds around this concept? That we had to repackage it with a new name (Climate Change) so they could start to even consider it? There are still folks out there who claim that they don't buy it, it's a myth, even though the scientific community is in agreement and we are already observing the results of it in our "unusual" and "dangerous" weather patterns? I'm currently 5 miles from the sea as the crow flies and am expecting oceanfront property in 20 years...silver lining thanks to those who won't think for themselves! The only question remaining as the horses are beginning to thunder out of the barn is do we wring our hands before or after closing the empty barn's door--damn fools!
Actually they changed it
Actually they changed it because Global Warming was as big of a joke as Global Cooling from the 1970's. There just isn't enough data to prove anything and scientist having gotten that much better in 30 years. The Global Cooling crowd had us almost in an ice age by now. I wonder if any of those same scientist are now Climate Change folks.
Unlike in 1977
Some people have a difficult time understanding that the science technology used today that determines climate change is way above what their little brains can comprehend.
Do your own homework.
I'd like some sources showing who was a part of the "global cooling crowd". How many of them were climate scientists and what was the ratio of them to climate scientists who found that the earth was in fact on a warming trend?
Hint: I already know the answer to this but the fact that you used it as an argument shows that you do not.
Climate Change Papers by the Fossil Fuel Industry Need Outed
The fossil fuel industry is a very powerful lobby and they pay scientists to write papers contrary to climate change because they know it will eventually affect their bottom-line. They want to reap profits in their lifetime and don't care about the future.
Any paper submitted with a hint of Industry influence and denial of the inevitable should not be peer reviewed and published.
Peer reviewed hoaxes... In
Peer reviewed hoaxes...
In 2010, after 67 years of membership, Lewis resigned from the APS, citing "corruption" from "the money flood" of government grants. His letter characterizes the APS as having changed from an organization that seeks to further scientific knowledge, to an organization that suppresses science in its attempt to obtain further funding from government agencies. The majority of his letter details...the "global warming scam, with the trillions of dollars driving it,that has corrupted so many scientists,...In his open letter to the APS president, Lewis declared the "global warming scam" as "the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist."
After 67 tears his brain
After 67 tears his brain obviously got fried.
Would you then agree
that papers submitted by those with interests in wind, solar, and carbon trading should also be rejected?
Remember that the oil industry is selling us a product we want and need no coercion to purchase. Green energy would not be purchased by anyone other than by force, so if we are to be suspicious of anyone, it should be those who require government force to sell their product.
You misunderstand how peer review is supposed to work. Qualified reviewers check the assertions for consistency and adherence to recognized practices, and reproduce the calculations using the provided data. It is a technical review, not an audit or political judgment.
If Satan submitted a technically correct paper, it would be considered the same way.
You Can't Expect Someone Who Has Never Been Published
In a peer-review journal or a reviewer to understand the practice. Let alone probably even take the time to read technical peer reviewed journals.
It is much easier to take a sound bite from MSNBC, Huffington Post, or etc.
yes
Yes and the vast majority of peer reviewed papers on climate change, 1) agree that it is occurring and 2) that there is an anthropomorphic effect.
Its a matter of degree
Both assertions are true, but the degree to which it is true is what is in dispute.
Even the IPCC AR5 assessment, in the final draft, agrees the sensitivity to CO2 was overestimated by 50%, and more recent peer reviewed papers(After the March deadline for inclusion) place the sensitivity at half the previously accepted value. That places project temperature increase over 100 years at 1.5 -2C and the Equilibrium sensitivity(the point at which a doubling CO2 stops raising temperature no matter how long you wait) at no more than 2.5C.
2.5C is the break even point between good and harm and a 2C increase is in fact, overall beneficial, especially when the independent benefits of CO2 fertilization are considered.
Would be silly to build a new marina in Norfolk
This article makes it clear that it would be silly to invest one more dime in Hampton Roads. No new marina needed, especially since one would be swamped quicker than Naval Station Norfolk! Get a grip folks.
Do you think a marina might
Do you think a marina might fully depreciate faster than the events about which this article is written?
Global Warming
and climate change and global climate modification and whatever else the loons can come up with is actually-"The Convenient Lie"!
Picture #2 of Mr. Titley
Picture #2 of Mr. Titley shows him giving the "Oceana Salute" - funny!
Follow North Carolina's lead
The TP looneys in the state legislature simply passed a law that sea levels are not rising. End of story.
The ice on Jupiter's moons
The ice on Jupiter's moons is melting, but the seas are not rising...LOL
Listen to what George Carlin has to say about the environment
Go to youtube and search for george carlin on the environment.
Talk about the truth.
Comment deleted
Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Obscene, vulgar, sexual
Well, given that storms
Well, given that storms created Willoughby Spit in 1789 and 1806, I’d say we are long overdue for another storm of such magnitude.
However, it must be noted that those storms occurred long before the advent of the Climate Change Industry; thus, there is no way that Toyota can manufacture enough Priuses to prevent the next big one.
Here we go again. Yes the
Here we go again. Yes the climate is changing-always has been and always will be until the earth is a dead star-but we get these "the sky is falling," reports then we spend money on them and they are wrong. Just a few short years ago, we were told hurricanes were going to get more frequent and stronger every year. Now each year they try to explain not this year but starting next year. We just do not know enough about the subject to plan for anything. We have only been monitoring the climate for about 150 years out of the millions of years old the earth is. In any other area of science, they would say that is an insufficient sample, but this fits someone's agenda and there is money to be made so it is gospel.
monitoring the climate for
monitoring the climate for about 150 years
Your statement pretty much sums it up: Modern day climate science is perpetrating a hoax.
In theory, the CSIROs climate models are sound; however, their datasets are so miniscule that their projections are a joke. Furthermore, “scientists” have been caught falsifying tree-ring and other data in an effort to “make it fit.”
If you think about it, the weather simply should not be a political issue. However, like ALL political issues, climate change is ALL about the money; specifically, it is ALL about government research grants and subsidies for Democratic Party cronies like Solyndra.
So the earth is 6000 years
So the earth is 6000 years old?
Well, the climate models
Well, the climate models dataset to the age of the planet ratio is approximately 1 : 3.3333e-8; thus, I'd say you are off by a few billion years.
Two fundamental problems here
One, your notation got it backwards. I think you wanted to say 1:3.3333e8. Second, your assertion that climate scientists have no data older than 150 years is ridiculous. Don't you know what proxy data is? You don't seem to be a very technically informed observer. Perhaps you should just leave the subject of climate to people who actually know what they are talking about.
Actually, I meant to say 1 :
Actually, I meant to say 1 : 30,000,000 — I should not talk on the phone, calculate and post simultaneously.
I am well aware of the fact that there are numerous “swags” available to enhance data gathering; still, they are not as accurate as actual data recorded in real-time and further, climate “scientists” often manipulate swags.
At a minimum scientists are expected to document, archive and share ALL data and methodology, as well as demonstrate their techniques to their peers. Furthermore, other scientists must be able to demonstrate and reproduce the same results.
I may not be a climatologist but I’m smart enough to know that something is not right when the weather is this political.
Swags?
That's "Sweeping Wild Ass Guesses." Ice cores, tree rings, radioisotope analysis, sediment analysis and other proxy data are not "swags." Your logic would have it that dinosaur fossils do not have sufficient legitimacy to establish the existence of dinosaurs.
Climate scientist DO "document, archive and share ALL data and methodology, as well as demonstrate their techniques to their peers." What makes you think they don't?
Finally, as to "when the weather" (sic - it's climate, not weather), your cabal of denialists are the ones who made it political, or, more precisely, ideological. You are not doing your grandchildren, great-grandchildren and beyond, any favors.
I’ve got one word that
I’ve got one word that sums up your swags: Climategate.
Furthermore, have a look at this letter from Dr. Harold Lewis — Professor of Physics and former Department Chairman at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He resigned because of his “revulsion” over the climate change “fraud” perpetrated by what he says is “science” distorted by money.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/
Now, you tell me who has made this an ideological issue.
Climategate
has been thoroughly examined, and the claims about "tricks" and "hide the decline" and so forth have been exhaustively examined and debunked to the satisfaction of all, except of course those who WANT to believe that it's all a hoax. We can acknowledge the letter written by the aged professor as relating his heartfelt beliefs. But he is (or was) one man. One man, who may or may not have a personal agenda or grudge, is only one man. His feelings do not decide the rightness or wrongness of the world's community of physicists' and climatologists' overwhelming consensus that there is anthropogenic global warming. To think that his opinion is right, and everyone else in his global peer group is wrong, is just grasping at straws.
It has been debunked to the
It has been debunked to the satisfaction of the left. However, a consensus is not a fact, it is an opinion; likewise, a conclusion is not "likely,” it is conclusive.
Global Warming Believers Are Feeling the Heat
On Friday the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change delivers its latest verdict on the state of man-made global warming. Though the details are a secret, one thing is clear: the version of events you will see and hear in much of the media, especially from partis pris organisations like the BBC, will be the opposite of what the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report actually says.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100238047/global-warming-believers-are-feeling-the-heat/
It has been debunked to the
It has been debunked to the satisfaction of the left. However, a consensus is not a fact, it is an opinion; likewise, a conclusion is not "likely,” it is conclusive.
It has been debunked to the satisfaction of science not the left, but then again the lack of literacy in science by the Right is what started this entire debate.
.
Just wondering....
Are you a scientist? Do you have any background in scientific discipline and inquiry? Are you an engineer or chemist or physicist, or anything relating to a technical competency? Or what? Or, are you just a troll, using the "John.Locke" pseudonym, to annoy the few of us in this forum looking for serious, fair-minded debate? As a technically-oriented person (I'm and engineer) I find your opinions to be rather ideological and non-rigorous. I'm an EE, (but, so what?) and I fully respect the understanding and grasp (much greater than mine) of climate scientists. I'm unburdened by conspiratorial paranoia that the climate denialists exhibit.
I’m an engineer as well
I’m an engineer as well (structural); however, I fail to see what difference it makes given that topic of discussion is weather (forgive me, it’s climate, not weather).
As for my pseudonym: I’m an admirer of Mr. Locke and have a great deal of respect for the contributions he made during the Era of Enlightenment, which resulted in the furthering of Humanity.
I'm unburdened by conspiratorial paranoia
Well, I take it that you have never been associated with anything related to the fedgov; for if you ever had, you would not know that it is not paranoia—there really are frauds.
So,
What is your real name? Why the pseudonym?
Are you kidding? There is no
Are you kidding? There is no way I would post political comments under my real name. If that is your real name, you either have no fear because you are leftist, or, you are very naïve.
No,
I have no problem expressing my views over my real name. Apparently you are worried that your views would not go over well with your employer, friends, or family. Gutless.
I have no problem expressing
I have no problem expressing my views over my real name.
Of course you don't, you are a leftist. You guys control the government and as evidenced by recent scandals involving the IRS, EPA and BATF, you all are willing to use it against your political opponents.
Admire Locke all you want,
Admire Locke all you want, but If I admired someone like michael jordan, I wouldn't put his name on my jersey, and then think I can play ball like him.
If I admired someone like
If I admired someone like michael jordan, I wouldn't put his name on my jersey,
But you might put his number on it (many do).
Sorry but Dr. Harold Lewis is not a climatologist.
A professor of physics who speaks outside his academic area on climate change has no more credibility than a dentist attempting to share his expertise on lobotomy's.
Recent Extreme Weather Events
"Here's what the first six months of 2012 brought:
•The hottest January to June ever recorded in the continental United States.
•More than 22,000 daily high temperature records tied or broken.
•The largest drought declaration in over 50 years, with more than two-thirds of the continental United States in drought at the end of July.
•One of the most destructive freak derecho storms in history.
•Fires in Colorado that have destroyed more than 700 homes.
Late Entry: Floods in Colorado.
REF: NRDC. Please reply with reference to dispute and not with ideology, or Party line talking points.
Sorry but
it is impossible to reply to a list with no point of view.
Its Dead, Jim
Even the IPCC and NATURE have given up on extreme weather links to climate change
http://tinyurl.com/p6j4c7r
We have had years of record lows in tropical cyclones and tornadoes.
A few oddball weather events do not make a trend.
Ah, I see
the war with reality is still being conducted.
Seriously, now you guys reject information from the IPCC AR5 and NATURE?
Have they now been co-opted by the Koch Bros?
Backwards
You mistake downvotes as disagreement with the IPCC and Nature when it is (probably) disagreement with your hypothesis and subsequent conclusions. Of course anecdotal extreme weather events are not proof of long term climate change much less climate change caused by humans; this says nothing about the scientific evidence that does exist to show that humans do contribute to climate change and the fact that climate change results in more extreme weather.
YOu're missing the point
what the articles established is that Climate Change DOES NOT result in increases in extreme weather.
Extreme weather occurs when the convergence zones(Jet Streams) move toward the equator. A small degree of warming stabilizes that shifting.
Both climate and weather are a lot more complicated than simply energy in=energy out.
Well Duh!
You don't need to be a retired Admiral to figure out that anything built close to a major water mass will be submerged during a huge storm. I saw first hand what Hugo did to the Charleston Naval Base. It went under water because of all of the water being pushed up against the land mast. Just send me the check for that study please.
...each time I read prognostications like this. ..
...I'm reminded of those dire warnings in the early 1980's that the entire Amazon rain forest would disappear in 30 years.
Translation: Not my problem
Translation: Not my problem dude. Leave it for the next generation.
richard92: ...wrong. not what I said...
...rather than childishly attack me, address the substance of my post. How can so many "experts" be so wrong, so often? Why do they rarely--if ever--admit they're wrong when reality proves their predictions of gloom and doom were absurd? A more accurate "translation" of my post is: Beware of the predictions of so-called experts. Especially those who have a monetary or political stake in them. Don't let them frighten you out of the responsible use of natural resources that not only make people's lives better, they sustain and make them possible. That reality is the exact opposite of what Paul Erlich predicted in 1968....
I believe the apt
I believe the apt observation is that as with all environmental concerns brought to the forefront, your greater concern seems to be the effect on the current economy and current income rather than the world we leave subsequent generations once we are gone. Perhaps he could have gone further in spelling it out. Those who regularly read this board fully understand the post.
Sounds Like The Democrats And The National Debt
Leave it to our children to worry about.
"Leave it to our children to worry about."
1981 to present. almost 33 years.
Only four years with a democrat Prez and democrat majority Congress.
All debt of the other years has been republican approved.
Methinks You Need to Either Learn to Count or Learn History
Do your research.
81-95 Democrats had the House for 14 years.
87-95 Democrats had the Senate for 8 years
2001-2003 Democrats had the Senate from 6 June 2001 - Jan 2003 due to independents caucusing with the Democrats
93-2001 Democrats had the White House
A Mind is A Terrible Thing to Waste. Don't Waste it.
or you could learn to read.
Only four years with a democrat Prez *and* democrat majority Congress
Missing the forest for the trees.
First I'd have to see some citations of the people who predicted that the Amazon would be totally gone within 30 years. Those people would of course be wrong. But how wrong are they?
https://plus.google.com/photos/+GoogleEarth/albums/5875822979804092129/5875822987436182002?pid=5875822987436182002&oid=106191537604091348855
The navy can still base submarines here...
when the water starts rising and we can all sing along with Johnny Cash, "How High's the Water Mama?" On the serious side, how would you expect the crowd that believes the earth is only 6000 years old and that Noah made room for dinosaurs on his ark? Obviously, a lot of these folks slept through their high-school science classes. If you dare to stray from the party line as the professor at UVA did, Ken Cucunelli will come after you with all the lawyers he can muster.
Coast lines change
Sea levels rise and fall.
Always have and they always will.
If the Navy can't figure out how to float then they've got a fundamental problem.
Bases need to be able to be picked up and moved.
Between mobile trailer offices and maybe they could use a decommissioned aircraft carrier as an office complex - they should be able to go with the flow as it were and not care so much which way the coast line goes.
What absolutely NEEDS to be done on a base should be there but everything else can be largely done from home based offices and employees can telecommute.
Plan "B"
Instead of fighting the never ending wars against terrorists which we encourage into existence by fighting foreign cultures and religions dominated by tribes of people that we will never change into our image. It would be better to transform the current military into one focused on fighting the gangs that are terrorizing our country and rebuild America rather then nation building in other countries where they hate us.
what are the temps for a three foot rise of sea?
How much does the ice of Antartica have to melt for a three foot rise of sea level? How much does the ice of Greenland have to melt for a three foot rise of sea level?
Water is a strange creature. It does not "expand" when it heats. It "only" expands at the freeze point. Fill a two-cup measuring cup of tap water to one cup and look at the meniscus. Put it in the microwave for 30 seconds and look at the meniscus. Is there a difference? Now put the measuring cup in the freezer for two hours then look at the meniscus again. Is there a difference?
Has anyone seen the water cover the piers during any storm or high tide?
Global warming exists. Man-made or man caused global warming is just an extension of "hate" humans first group.
Let's compare evidence.
On the one hand we have essentially every climate scientist, key word here being 'scientist' in that they use the scientific method in the study of their field of research, determining that human beings through their pursuit of carbon emission-based industry has greatly contributed to the increase in rate of temperature increase across the Earth.
On the other hand we have you putting measuring cups half full of water in a microwave and freezer and saying that the outcomes of those events has something to do with the global climate.
Who is the one who "hates" humans here? The people who want to prevent a massive loss human life or the people who not that many hundreds of years ago would be believers of the geocentric model?
Out of space.
'people who not that many hundreds of years ago would be believers of the geocentric model?'
People who not that many hundreds of years go would still be believers of the geocentric model in the face of emerging scientific evidence of heliocentrism.
Lets Do Compare Evidence
Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science
http://climatechangereconsidered.org/
Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/
500 scientists refute global warming dangers
http://www.wnd.com/2007/09/43489/
Former Global Warming Supporter Now Shows Data that Refutes It
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/12392-former-global-warming-supporter-now-shows-data-that-refutes-it
Scientist does not equal Climate Scientist
A dentist is a type of doctor but do you go to a dentist for cancer diagnosis and treatment or do you go to an oncologist? Similarly do you go to an engineer for climate science research and analysis or do you go to a climate scientist? Employ some critical thinking before you parrot other's inane articles. I mean, take 10 minutes to skim the cited report from Organization Studies in the Forbes article and you will see it doesn't even concern itself with the science behind climate change but with the differing views of climate scientists on one hand and more general-field scientists on the other and how and why those views are divergent. Hint: It's not because non-climate scientists know more about the climate than climate scientists.
Take your 2-cup measuring
Take your 2-cup measuring cup with ice an inch over the top lip before putting it in the microwave (to approximate the ice cap). See if you have any water lying around the measuring cup after melting the ice. Where is that melted ice going to go? The inch is simply for purposes of illustration.
you did read the post before posting a reply didn't you?
What was the FIRST question? What was the SECOND question? Why did you failed to answer those two question? How much ice on Antartica and/or Greenland would it take to raise the sea level about three feet?
The normal rebuttal attempt by those worshipping at man-made global warming is to say the sea temperature would rise and therefore EXPAND. No one has denied that MELTING ice causes a water level, but it appears obvious that you do not want to try the little experiment since it would make those who falsely claim the sea level would rise because of heated ocean water.
Antartica and Greenland are the examples because if you melt all the ice in a glass of ice tea (or water) the LEVEL REMAINS THE SAME which is why you cannot use the Artic.
Hilariously ignorant
The fact that you think the polar ice caps and Greenland are analogous to ice cubes floating in a liquid shows how ignorant of reality and science you really are. They are landmasses.
Correction
Antarctica and Greenland, not polar ice caps and Grenland.
Greenland and Anarctica
Indeed they are grounded ice sheets, not floating.
But they are also more than 2 miles thick and 90% above the snow line where it never gets above freezing. It is possible for them to melt a bit around the edges, but significant melting even at the highest predicted temperatures would take thousands of years.
Gore didn't tell you that.
What the article above does not tell you is that here, subsidence is much more a problem than real sea level rise.
At the Navy Base, it would be wise to prepare for a relative sea level rise of 4-5 feet over 100 years, of which 75% is really subsidence and unrelated to climate change
doc - you are forgetting the stereotype
If you continue then think of the damage you are doing to liberals' self-esteem by going against the stereotype that conservatives hate science.
Why don't you follow what you are told to think and repeat? Everyone knows the sea level is going to rise and you try to confuse liberals by using the term relative (If the person on the see-saw goes up, does that mean the ground is lowering?).
floating ice in antarctica or greenland? who said that?
The arctic region is like ice floating in the constant level ice tea glass. Did you think there was ground under the North Pole?
The melting ice cubes in a glass without water is like the ice on Antarctica or Greenland.
Nice distraction or were you showing you didn't read the post before replying.
The funnier part is the fear of finding out that hot water level is the same as warm water or room temperature water. The rebuttal of "expansion" because of warm air is laughable.
You don't want to disturb these warmers with physics
How unkind of you. And please don't mention sun flares and periods of activity. Those are all pseudo science, don't you know? Al told them so.
Actually you can use those
Much of the ice in Antartica is actually on land and not floating in water. Your experiment is inconclusive.
water max density is 39 degress F., not freezing
From Wikipedia:
"..Density of water and ice - Density of ice and water as a function of temperature ... 4 °C (39 °F), pure water reaches its maximum density."
Lakes and oceans freeze from the top down, not otherwise (generally), although seawater freezes at about 28 degrees or so. Obviously, fresh water if exposed to seawater at 28 degrees will...wait for it...
Nah! If you can't figure it out, just guess!
Water and its freezing behavior can be counter-intuitive.
Also holds roughly 700 times as much heat energy as air at sea level.
Us amphibian-brained frogs don't notice the pans' gettin' warm (while the room gently but steadily goes tropical).
Global Warming Threatened Sewell's Point in the 160-1800s?
Although Hampton Roads represents a sheltered area from the tempests of both the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean, the area’s shorelines change with extreme weather. At one time, apparently since English settlement began at Jamestown in 1607, Willoughby Bay did not border Sewells Point to the north, since it didn't even exist yet.
According to local legend, following a terrific storm (possibly
the "Harry Cane" of 1667) a point of land where there had been only water the night before.
Severe storms and hurricanes would continue to transform the contour of the coast, and the Willoughby holdings, for more than a century.
Residents of coastal Virginia in 1607–1776 were very much aware of the weather. People who lived near the water a tropical storm
Hogwash!...
...A major storm could do that to almost any coastline in the world. Huge rainfalls in short periods flood cities and towns regularly, and they are closed and rather dependent on outside help for days, weeks, etc. What's the big deal... This study was done to antagonize the "it's not global warming crowd". Give me a break, and get real!
Move along
Since this story has top billing over election news, I'll take it as the sign that the Obatorial Staff at the Pilot have accepted that Two-bit Terry McAwful is toast and have moved along to future business; supporting Sultan Barack impending Fatwas against energy companies.
Comment deleted
Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Personal attack, name calling
LOL LOL LOL lol lol lol lol!!!!!!!!
Yes, I am laughing very loudly! I can recall the great knowledge of climate change screeming back in the 1970's that we were all going to FREEZE or starve to death due to "Global Cooling". Billions of our tax dollars were spent to provide funding for the "scientist" to research this man made effect on our world. We banned freon and many perfluorocarbons or PFCs at the cost of billions of dollars. Eventually the studies were prooven to be wrong. If we do the research we'll find that throughout time "scientist" have bounced back and forth between cooling and warming whenever they need money to support themselves with. Indeed the sky is falling! In real life the change will be very very slowly over the next centry or longer and not drastic.
I don't understand people
I don't understand people who ridicule science. It is the basis for so much. Those who cynically ridicule it because of money and costs show what they are most concerned about, which is money and costs. They don't take into account the advances. There are rigorous standards of peer review and testing, and empirical evidence. I trust them more than the moaners and complainers about money.
I do not understand people
I do not understand people who ignore archeological, geological and historical FACTS, and instead, choose to adhere to a consensus of OPINIONS.
By the way...
This is yet another broken promise by Obama-(the)One-Kenyobi. He was supposed to lower the oceans. So, things like this wouldn't be a problem anymore.
nonsense
total garbage and lies
One Also Only Had to Look At Maps 100-200 Years Old
To figure out that the land that the Naval Station is built on is former low lying areas, former marsh-swamp areas (which would not be protected as wetlands) and land-fill. Why spend countless amounts of money to figure this out? Why was this land primarily undeveloped until the Jamestown Exposition of 1907?
Kinda of like large sections of Downtown Norfolk, such as the "arts district" area around the Virginia Pilot and the Exxon station. Those areas were historically creek beds and estuaries. Water goes to the lowest areas unless.
Compare the 1907 Jamestown Exposition Graphic
To maps of the Sewell's point and Naval Base area today.
Map of Virginia and Maryland 1751
http://tomitronics.com/the%20gene%20pool/sewell/images/Kitfry-1-.jpg
1907 Jamestown Exposition area
http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/media_player?mets_filename=evm00001137mets.xml
Why was this land primarily
Why was this land primarily undeveloped until 1907? Because there was no way to access it. Promoters had to put up the money to run rail lines to get passengers from downtown out to Pine Beach where the Exposition was being held. There were few roads out to the site. Landfill wasn't attempted in the area until more than a decade after the exposition when City officials successfully lobbied the federal government to acquire the property. By that time, the properties had not been maintained. Uncontrolled vegetation had grown up around the magnificent structures (only a few of which remain today). But they had not been built on marsh ground. Only subsequent ennlargement by the federal government is on landfill.
Science 101: You burn one
Science 101: You burn one gallon of gas which weighs approximately 6.5 lbs. Each gallon puts approximately 20 lbs. of C02 into the atmosphere. Multiply that by the number of gallons burned each day worldwide. [Approximately 85.27 million gallons] It doesn't take a genius to know that it just doesn't disappear into something inert that has no effect on the climate.