RICHMOND
The strip clubs on George Washington Highway in Chesapeake are a long way from the halls of the General Assembly.
But for about a half hour Friday morning, the Senate Committee on Rehabilitation and Social Services wrestled with questions of art, nudity, and noise as they considered HB1171.
Among other things, the legislation clarifies what constitutes lewd conduct at an establishment regulated by the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control - and furnishes a detailed list of prohibited activities.
A little nudity during a performance of Shakespeare's "Othello"? That's OK.
The Sex Workers' Art Show? Maybe.
But topless dancers in Chesapeake?
No way, Del. John Cosgrove and Virginia Attorney General Bob McDonnell say.
Lawmakers decided they needed a little more time to ponder some of those questions. They voted 8-7 to consider the bill some more and take it up again next week.
Cosgrove, R-Chesapeake, sponsored the bill at McDonnell's request. They drew up the legislation in response to a decision by a federal judge in Norfolk.
In August, U.S. District Judge Walter D. Kelley Jr. struck down Virginia's law and ABC regulations on what constitutes noisy, lewd and disorderly conduct in restaurants and clubs, determining that they were unconstitutional.
His decision came after the owners of six nightclubs in South Hampton Roads - four at the Virginia Beach Oceanfront and two in downtown Norfolk - sued the ABC board after receiving citations for lewd and disorderly conduct.
Kelley also stopped ABC agents from issuing citations, outside of "obscene" behavior.
The judge's action left the ABC with little enforcement authority, Assistant Attorney General Catherine Crooks Hill told the committee.
"That's why you have topless dancers in Chesapeake," Hill said.
Since the injunction, at least two clubs in Chesapeake, Headlights and J.B.'s Gallery of Girls, situated side-by-side on George Washington Highway, have allowed their dancers to perform topless.
Before the decision, those clubs followed local and state law that requires nipple coverings.
On a recent afternoon, as women danced topless behind him, Headlights representative Buddy Brown declined comment.
The judge's decision carries statewide implications, Hill said. "It's a potential free-for-all, if you will, throughout the commonwealth."
Virginia Beach attorney Kevin Martingayle, who represents several restaurants and nightclubs at the Oceanfront and in downtown Norfolk, said in a phone interview that the General Assembly should strip the ABC board of any enforcement duties other than those involving serving alcohol.
"There's really no reason for the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control to be worrying about noise, disorderly conduct and nudity or obscenity," he said.
Martingayle suggested those duties fall solely to local and state police.
Cosgrove's bill draws a distinction for lewd behavior in the name of art, however.
Bad language, stripteases and nudity in ABC-regulated venues such as theaters, concert halls and museums would be allowed if the performances are not obscene and have "serious literary, artistic, scientific, or political value."
Kent Willis, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, said in a phone interview the bill appears to have fixed problems with the previous law, which he said was too vague.
"The question that remains is whether the new restrictions are constitutional and certainly, if they are, there will be some questions about how they are applied," he said.
Sen. Frank Wagner, R-Virginia Beach, wondered how the legislation would play out in his district, which hosts a lot of outdoor concerts.
"I'm not seeing a standard of fairness here," he said.
Sen. Ken Cuccinelli, R-Fairfax, questioned whether the bill would apply to the Sex Workers' Art Show that generated controversy at the College of William and Mary. (Only if it was held at an ABC-regulated establishment.)
Sen. Emmett Hanger, R-Augusta, said he saw a double standard in the legislation.
"I don't see that we should carve out an exception for the arts for all this lewd activity," Hanger said.
Jen McCaffery, (757) 446-2627, jen.mccaffery@pilotonline.com
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nudity
i feel that anyone who enters these establishments , wants to be there , as long as there is no minors there who is it hurting , this is another instance of government , deciding what consenting adults can view or not view , land of the free i dont think so , i applaude the judges decision to slap the abc board of va , i think legislators are so worried about what consenting adult view , should clean up ther own act first lets start with the state seal , and the state flag , and the patches that every law officer wears on their sleeve , if you come right down to it it is obsene too , the abc store has this seal right on its front door , it is just as obsene if you get right down to it ,
However Phrog
"That kind of sounds like the basis on which we derive our laws from. Now, there is a point of over-stepping the bounds of definition between law and morals."
You left out the part about morals being completely subjective. They change from person to person. Thus, the rule of law cannot apply morals in a fair and just way. The law is, and should be completely subjective. Otherwise, I and those like me could garner support and have you prosecuted for what I deem to be immoral. In fact, I find limiting others rights to support the morals of others to be highly immoral. If your logic were to be supported in legislation and case law, I with enough votes could have you jailed for just about anything.
All cosgrove is doing is
All cosgrove is doing is taking $$$ away from Chesapeake and sending it to North Carolina. My friends and I frequented the Headlights in Eliz City. Once we found out the Headlights in Ches was topless we go there. Saves about 20 - 30 mins in drive time. The only losers in this will be chesapeake and the state of VA. It is not like NC is far from here. I think we should pass looser laws for the oceanfront. How about a CO section at VA Beach? Both NJ and MIA FLA make a killing off of their CO beaches. If William and Mary (a public school) can have sex shows, why cant we have a little boobage at the oceanfront??
definition of lewd
Why not make it nice and simple so that even the ABC Guys don't have to argue each and every time they site someone. I Propose the Following that if a SEXUAL ORGAN is exposed it is LEWD. If it is a Breast its not. How do the ABC Guys decide if the wheter the Male Dancers have to have top's??? Duh
Makes No Sense
As someone who lives in a country where their is strict gun control and almost wide open nudity ( any person can go topless anywhere even on Saturday afternoon on Main street) as well a host of other completely public nude activities being legal. I then look on in amazement that your state allows concealed weapons in bar ( why - who knows I guess the other guy may have a gun to). Compare the per capita murder rate - you lose big time. Take the guns out of the bar and allow the ladies in the bar in what ever state of dress or undress. Trust me the nudie bar is far healthier than the gun toot-in bar You will live longer and at the nudie bar.
Just OK prostitution and be done with it
Nevada makes a killing in tax revenues from licensed brothels. Most are friendly, clean, inviting places. VA's slogan could be "Visit us this weekend - give your wife a break".
This reminds me of something..
I had to take an arts class @ ODU and I chose theatre. It was a large class and one day our professor showed us a clip of some movie and what did we see??? Jason Alexander better known as George from Seinfeld running around some place in Long Island in his birthday suit revealing everything...I mean everything. I paid something like $400-500 a class at the time. I really gained nothing out of the class and if someone wants to throw their money away at the strip club than more power to them. However, the losers are the taxpayers that are throwing money away to have our delegates sit and talk about nuts hanging from bumpers, abercrombie and fitch posters, and topless strip clubs.....ugh my head hurts
tax dollars down 168
I'd never be one to frequent a topless bar, but in these tough times, anything that chases potential tax revenue from VA to NC/MD/DC is very annoying. Especially when the people who are most interested in these kinds of bills are usually from some little, middle of nowhere place (Augusta) that contributes nothing to the General Fund but takes as much as it can in pork...
"needed a little more time to ponder..."
Must be time for a fact finding tour. What line item do they list for a fistful of single dollar bills on the expense report?
Law IS morality
I get so sick and tired of people saying that you can't legislate morality. What do you think law is??? Dictionaries define "moral" as:
adj.
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.
That kind of sounds like the basis on which we derive our laws from. Now, there is a point of over-stepping the bounds of definition between law and morals. There are expected codes of conduct that must guide how a society is governed. Murder is wrong (morally) and it is illegal (legally). Still, the law is based on a moral objective. Topless dancing is wrong (morally) but in the privacy of home or business it is legal. The resp
Public Health Threat
If the legislatures want to get rid of the ta-tas at the bars then perhaps they need to start a public health hysteria like some folks are doing for the ban on smoking. Just tell the legislators that some innocent person is going to get an eye put out or something like that.
In all seriousness though, how about this for a novel idea? Let the business owner decide what is right for his establishment. Loopholes for "artistic merit" are ridiculous because no two person's opinions about art are exactly the same.
Thank Goodnes
Thank Goodnes that our legislators have solved all of the trivial problems facing our society today, and can now move on to the mega-question of whether society will crumble if a bare boob is seen in a bar (or, Goodness forbid, on a beach). Why can’t we get over ourselves? Our lawmakers clearly need seething to occupy their time. Maybe they should take up Soduku puzzles or something. And where are our right-wing friends who go ballistic over a proposal to ban smoking in restaurants. Isn’t this the same question of how much government is enough? (By-the-way, bare boobs have been shown to be FAR less harmful to my health than cigarette smoke.) There’s actually a pretty simple solution to this problem – if you don’t want to see them, DON’T LOOK.
Well said
Governments have tried to legislate morality for centuries, but they never learn that it CANNOT be done. Please spend some time on issues that matter in the GA. Please, please, please...
Just Wish I Could Be...
a fly on the wall at the General Assembly on this one. I could use a good laugh at the expense of these hypocritical time wasters. Topless bars exist in Chesapeake because some people in Chesapeake want to attend topless bars and are willing to pay for the experience. Certainly the establishments can regulate themselves with the help of laws already on the books. If Del. Cosgrove is sucessful in outlawing topless bars in VA, all his constituents will just go to NC. Sorry, legislating morality doesn't work--sic semper tyrannis!