VIRGINIA BEACH
The Buddhist monks must stop holding services at their home near Pungo.
In an 8-2 vote Tuesday, the Virginia Beach City Council denied the monks' request to use their West Neck Road house as a temple with a Sunday service for two more years.
"I accept the reality," said Thich Chuc Thanh, one of five monks who lives in the house.
However, Morris Fine, the attorney for the Buddhist Education Center of America Inc., said he is concerned that the city has violated the monks' religious rights.
"I think we will be talking to somebody about litigation," Fine said after the vote.
The debate over the temple drew crowds from both sides.
Proponents, many of whom attend the temple, said the monks were peaceful and have helped people by teaching them about Buddhism.
"If we can open up our hearts and allow ourselves to work with one another... I think we would have a far superior community here," supporter William Osborn said.
Many of the monks' neighbors objected to the temple.
The religious institution doesn't fit into their neighborhood of farms and homes, said Louis Cullipher, a neighbor.
Other residents complained that the temple drew too much traffic and large crowds for the Sunday services.
If the monks were allowed to continue using their home as a temple, more and more people would come there to worship, said Daniel Franken, another neighbor.
Franken said he feared the temple could grow to the size of Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network.
"Where is it going to end?" Franken asked. "What will happen to this neighborhood when this place outgrows itself?"
City Councilman Jim Wood, who voted against the extension, said the council last August gave the monks a year to move to a more suitable neighborhood and they haven't made enough efforts to do so.
The City Council's decision had nothing to do with religion, Wood said. "In my opinion, it was a land-use issue, not a religious issue," he said.
City Councilwoman Barbara Henley agreed. "I have no belief that the city is intolerant and that the people in the city are intolerant," she said.
Councilman Bob Dyer, who along with Harry Diezel voted against the denial, said religious institutions help maintain strong communities.
As long as the temple maintained its current attendance and had a conditional-use permit from the city, "I think we could have had a win-win situation," Dyer said.
Samantha Niezgoda, a friend of the monks', teared up as she explained to the monks after the vote that they would have to stop their Sunday services.
"Keep smile," Thanh said.
Deirdre Fernandes, (757) 222-5121, deirdre.fernandes@pilotonline.com
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Equal Rights or Special Rights?
Although I don't know all of the specifics, I would say there's a serious problem with any Buddhist practitioner who doesn't know the difference between "equal rights" and "special rights".
From my understanding, these monks disregarded the zoning laws when they were pretending to be a home study group and now they're trying to play the role of victim, claiming discrimination where no discrimination exists?
Their behavior is contrary to the Dharma and it's time for them to grow up.
Re: Indefensible Slurs -
Billy: No one is calling the Underhills racists or xenophobics because they oppose the Buddhist. Get it straight and stop twisting what was really said.
Because there is an underlying prevailing aura of "fear of outsiders" in this area specifically DOES NOT label or single out (or slander as you profess) the people who oppose the Buddhist as racists or xenophobics. In conjunction with zoning issues there are issues of a failure to see that in this case, "what is not understood is feared."
You need to understand the First Amendment and stop acting like a victim.
People use all kinds of things,
Other than truth, to push what amounts to bias. Few are willing to admit to certain biases & fears, in these times. All this reminds me of the "State's Rights" code word arguments during the scariest days of the civil rights movement. All of us need to look inside, deep inside, to see, just why difference is something we so fear.
Good things about monks
August 28, 2008
The Monks in Virginia Beach
By Artiest (a down to earth friend)
These Buddhist Monks belong to the Mahayana (a modern sect)
Traditionally, all Buddhist monks had to live in their temples or monasteries since 500 years before Christ. WHY? Monks must be readily accessible for spiritual guidance and help to all followers when the need arises. In their South Vietnamese society the temple is open 24 – 7. People can come anytime they need service.
Once their vows are taken, all Buddhist monks are required to denounce all physical attachment to family, to outside jobs and to other worldly needs, thus they enter a simple life of spiritual attendance and service to the public. They are highly sought after for their skills in teaching meditation as they help many to overcome stress.
Maybe its because Buddhists like trees...
So the WAVE church can build a church in Pungo off a two lane road on a curve, but monks can not practice in an established home where they also live? They can rent the home across from me. Their noise can't be any louder than the dozens of jets I've heard today or Lynnhaven construction project nearby.
marym63204 ... We are speaking of what seems unsightly
Appearances marym63204; Myra may be Jewish but she would find anyone of foreign means unsightly or not within the right to practice outside of the realm of an Americana type look. If they were Hasidic Jews with women covering and the men in long beards this would not work for the sales brochure type picture the entire council looks at to raise revenue. This has been proven time and again. The only bashing I have seen here is the lack of understanding and unprincipled nature of VB Gov to the constitution of the US.
Why, presently they are in a fight over that very thing in Federal court
Honestly, 3 points
1) The majority of the neighbors are concerned w/ future building plans after the zoning change. THe religion is a non-issue.
2) The monks have in FACT attempted to place a larger building on the property in the past.
3) This is a tax and zoning issue. No one cares if the worship. The future plans for the location are the issue.
It should be noted that Seaboard Rd. Which another poster mentioned is no where near West Neck, nor is it comparable.
City is definitely violating the law
As a previous poster mentioned, it is against the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) for a government to tell people they cannot have religous services on their property. There are several caveats to it, but the city's ruling is a clear violation of the act. While this section of the act still has not been challenged in the Supreme Court (due to its interference with local zoning laws), it looks like VA Beach needs to find themselves an attorney. I think the monks have a good case to challenge the city's ruling in court.
radical Muslim madrassah?
Another Pogo moment.
Beach council rules Buddhists cannot hold services in home
Isn't The Wave Church building a facility in this area?
From their website info:
"We are currently working on plans to build our South Beach Campus on Seaboard Road. This first phase will enable us to begin meeting on our property in a new 500 seat auditorium with great facilities for our children and youth. This first phase will only be the beginning of a much larger complex centered around our Wave Convention Center II."
Will they be subject to the same ruling of 'a one year trial'? Maybe they could offer 'sanctuary' to the monks!
Good Luck Monks
My point isn't about religious bias. I just do not believe it was "only a zoning issue." Frankly if you can give the Chatholic Church across the street from my home (all in a R7.5 zoned residential area)a CUP then why can't the monks have one in the Pungo residential community? They are alot farther out in the county than my home is. I have every issue the Pungo folks compained about except I don't have Mrs. Henley living in my community. However I and all the other residents on my street have got over 3,000 cars every weekend and hundreds more every weekday night. On Sunday, they make so much noise(loud music and voices) you can even hear them inside my home! Atleast the monks live on a huge lot out in the country... So what happens to be different about the Monks case?
Yesterday, I told one of the city council members that I didn't know how they were going to get out of this mess and wished him luck. Now I ha
The bashing is pretty intense . . .
I think the city should work with the monks, too, but . . . two things:
1) Mayor Oberndorf is Jewish, not Christian, so the anti-Christian bias of people upset with the city council is a bit weird. Do we know for sure the religions of the others on the council or are we just assuming that everyone who opposes the Buddhists is Christian???
2) What about in the future when it is a radical Muslim madrassah that someone is trying to build on a residential lot in Pungo? If we make this about freedom of religion, will we have to do it then, too? Cheers, MGM
NIMBY at it's finest!!!!!!
Well there you have anothr fine example of NIMBY at it's finest. So if I built a Baptist church on the same property, would the fear of it becoming another CBN still exist? This is more about a church worshipping their beliefs that the surrounding area doesn't understand the fundamentals of. I seriously doubt that this church has a single negative effect on Pungo, the farms, or the property values. I am so glad I moved away from the beach so I dont have to be forced to live by someone else's code simply because they pay taxes and they think it gives them the right to. The last I checked, they believe in helping your fellow man....something a few churches in Pungo dont do very well. The city of Va. Beach needs to worry more about their public transportation system than these monks. But then again, public transportation might bring families into the city who cannot afford a shiny new car and run down pro
City Attorney????
What kind of idiot would have advised the council to rule in this way? I'm not a lawyer and have never passed the Bar, but I'm intelligent enough to look around me and know that this is poor decision making. Now, the ruling will be overturned and the City of Virginia Beach will pick up the tab for the court costs as well. West Neck folks - get over yourselves. Freedom of religion is part and parcel of this country.
William Bailey Super bowl parites are safe(Sponsered by Dorrito)
See them Super bowls and such bring in revenue for the city. Buddhists don't sell anything but bliss man. The City has not figured out how to charge for bliss, so bliss is un-American. Believe me, when they do that like you can for a glowing crosses or he Face of Pat Robertson; mark my word, that council will turn around and give those Monks their props. Ommmmmanoman; Pass that tasty bliss; it’s lite and only 108 calories per serving. That’s 11% food and admissions tax back to the city for more of...
By the way; “53 schools in S. Hampton Roads fail to meet federal standards.” Do something about that and leave the monks alone
It's not that zoning ordinances are mystifying;
it's that enforcement is sometimes sporadic at best, their purpose & meaning suspect, & their application, too often biased toward an elite few. This particular ordinance is a violation of freedom of religion. Yet, with the right-wing judges now seated at our state & federal courts, it probably doesn't matter to have Constitutional law on the side of the monks. Too many of these judges have treated the Constitution with total disregard, over the last 7+ years. Warrantless wiretaps, holding of American born citizens as enemy combatants & not allowing them access to lawyers or family members, torturing of prisoners of war, etc. This is what has become of our judicial system. What a shame. I bet some feel all of the above, is just fine.
Location?
Let me see if I have the facts right? Last year City council granted a temporary permit for the monks to hold service there. I don't know of all the particulars of this permit but I recall it to be 1 year and re-assessed. I do recall many compliments paid to city council for not being close minded and very tolerant to others faith. A year later council re-assessed and decides to close them down. Now the question is, did council decide to do this because neighbors just don't like the monks or has traffic significantly increased along with membership doubling, tripling etc. That's the real question and based on the answer, the decision should be made! Let council do there job or vote them out if you don't like them!
Now if an exception is made, then the law suits will come especially when a more aggressive or radical belief group applies to open their house of worship and is denied! I'm not a Buddhist but
VB Council, This is Despicable
I'm disgusted by this and I can see by the comments already posted that I am not alone. I am not a Buddist, nor do I need to be to understand that this is a travesty.
Council: Pathetic. Stand for US. Vote for US. WE don't approve of this! WE don't approve of YOU. Give them back their rights, and their peaceful worship.
Neighbors: You should be ashamed of yourselves. I certainly am ashamed of you.
3,000 cars every weekend
I don't understand why 35 cars is an issue. I've got 3,000 every weekend driving by my home in a zoned residential area of the city. Frankly I do not believe City Council made the right choice on this issue, When the folks next door can stop you from praying in your own home, we have a problem. What's next no Superbowl parties?
Traffic in the neighborhood
I don't understand why people are complaining about the traffic in the neighborhood. Every Sunday I am stopped on Kempsville road so the police can direct the traffic out of the local churches where people worship cause there are so many cars. Also add Wednesday night to that. What is everyone in that neighborhood so scared of just live and let live and quit complaining. They are not a rowdy group of people and who cares what they do. There not any broken down cars parked on the grass and a chained up dog on the porch or anything like that. Unfortunately this will cost the tax payers lots of money in legal fees just so the city can lose. Great job city council now do something more productive with our money like fixing potholes or something.