NORFOLK
In the four years since Joanna Jenkins moved to a house not far from Old Dominion University, her block of 38th Street has come a long way.
Ramshackle homes, one of which she described as a crack house, have been bulldozed and replaced with quaint ones occupied by neighbors who are meticulous about their lawns. Even the apartment buildings near the corner of Colley Avenue were renovated, Jenkins said.
Then the fall semester arrived along with college students.
On weekends, there’s loud music, crowds of young people in the street and party participants puking over balcony railings after too much drinking, Jenkins said.
“I certainly don’t want to see the day when this turns around because of some drunken college students,” she said.
The same complaints are heard in Larchmont. Janis Weisberg stressed that she loves Old Dominion University and its students, but she’s getting tired of students renting homes nearby and throwing parties that draw too much traffic to the narrow, tree-lined streets.
“I want to be a good neighbor,” Weisberg said. “But none of us who’ve made investments in our homes want to see our property values decreasing.”
ODU’s growth also has meant growing pains for its neighbors, including many in Larchmont, Lamberts Point, Highland Park and Colonial Place. On-campus housing has not kept pace with enrollment as the school tries to replace its commuter image with that of a residential university.
Enrollment recently topped 23,000, and the school will have about 4,600 beds on campus when three dorms are completed next year.
A proposed private dormitory complex adjacent to Killam Avenue at 38th and 39th streets could house almost 1,000 additional students in the fall of 2010 . There are no other announced plans for more housing.
Students looking for rooms within walking distance of class find themselves among single-family houses dotted with swing sets and tricycles.
Longtime residents fear that the student influx will get worse: They see houses that have been on the market being converted into rentals. And the rents, particularly in Larchmont, aren’t cheap. An ad for a house on Hampton Boulevard rents five private rooms each for $400 per month. A three-bedroom townhouse is going for $2,100.
Weisberg is concerned that landlords are cramming students into homes to cover monthly payments. City codes state that no more than four unrelated people can share a rental.
City Councilwoman Theresa Whibley, a resident of Larchmont, recently brought the issue before the council. She’s lived in the neighborhood for more than 15 years, and the number of student renters is “definitely proportional to increased enrollment.”
Whibley has student renters next door but said her concerns go beyond her street.
“In Lamberts Point, they’re building lovely homes there,” she said. “An investor comes in and rents it to eight kids. This is a neighborhood trying to build itself up.”
Several residents said they don’t blame the students as much as the landlords.
Jim Thomas became a landlord this year. After paying his son’s rent for the last couple of years, he figured, “Why should I pay someone else’s mortgage?”
He bought a house on Monterey Avenue, which his son now shares with other students.
Thomas said he tries to be a good landlord. His online advertisement states that the “house is not a party house and through the week late night time quietness is expected.” He prefers renters over the age of 21.
For his son, Nick, off-campus housing is the only answer . He and his roommates live like a family, he said, cooking and eating together.
“Living in a house is the way to go,” Nick Thomas said. “I feel that you have a lot more personal space. In a dorm, you’re in a building with 600. I feel like it’s harder to get away. Going in your dorm room and closing the door isn’t enough.”
Nick Thomas grew up in a Richmond neighborhood similar to Larchmont, so he understands the concerns of other residents.
“I could have parties at my house, but I don’t want anything to have potential conflict with my neighbors,” he said. But, there’s a reality to living next to a college, he said. “If you live near a big university campus, you should pretty much expect it.”
Roommates Alexis Remaley and Mandy West said campus housing is too scarce. They found their apartment in the 700 block of 38th St. on the Internet.
They like living off campus but are concerned that their partying peers make it difficult for others trying to meld into neighborhood life. They said they’ve called the police on other students for noise.
“It will mess it up for people who want to live off campus,” West said.
Geneva Walker-Johnson, dean of students and chief student affairs officer at ODU, said her department has received more complaints this year than before and is planning ways to bring students and civic leaders together to find some middle ground.
The university can only do so much, she said.
It has no way of knowing how many students rent homes off campus, and it can’t investigate many of the vague complaints it receives.
“People are very quick to say if it’s someone young, they have to be ODU students,” Walker-Johnson said, “If we have very clear information as to who the students are, we put them in our ODU student discipline system.”
She’d like to institute what she calls an “adopt-a-neighbor” policy. Students who see litter in a neighbor’s yard, for example, could pick it up along with their own. If they plan to have a party, they could alert neighbors and promise to keep the noise down.
Anthony Paige, pastor of First Baptist Church Lamberts Point and a former member of ODU’s Board of Visitors, sees the growing pains as a good sign. While absentee landlords do need to be brought under control, he said, universities can transform communities for the good.
He’d like to see ODU become another Georgetown University, a place he admires when he visits Washington . That school has blended well into the fabric of its nearby communities, he said.
“I’m not mad about what I see,” Paige said of Norfolk’s situation. “I love to see transformation. … I don’t think that in the Georgetown renaissance, that there won’t ever be a time where there won’t be any discomfort. I think that’s part of the learning curve of becoming a great community.’’
Denise Watson Batts, (757) 446-2504,
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Here's an idea
Maybe all the people that are annoyed by these drunken students can get together with the residents of the "South Hill" neighborhood in Chesapeake to figure out a plan to have the city or state pay for their relocation. There is no difference really. Those tanks are ugly and maybe even dangerous and likewise, drunken college students make your neighborhood ugly with their litter and vomit and if they are drunk enough they too could be dangerous. I think I am on to a solution here! Where do we get the money though? That's the only hang up really. Hmmmmmm
Mary,
if you can hear the noise a mile away in every room of your house you should be asking the builder about the quality of materials used in it's construction. Or, you should be working with FEMA to help locate folks buried under rubble. What exactly are these citizens rights? Is not one of them the right to rent your property to anyone you choose? Where are the police? When there is not enough funding for the police or they are busy fining people for feeding ducks or there is no political will to stop the violations then you do have options. One of your citizens rights is the freedom to move. Another is to show up at council meetings to voice your complaints and hope that council is not swayed by the millions they make from the colleges. ;-P
We can't imagine every outcome . . .
When a person buys a house near a college or university and stays there long term, it is not possible to envision every possible way the university might expand in the future. For example, we are a mile away from Virginia Wesleyan College which is in the process of developing its outlying sports fields. I believe they are buffering them with earthen banks but I will be enquiring about that as . . . I can currently hear every word of their sports announcer in my front yard as though the game were being played in my cul-de-sac. I can hear the general noise level in every room of my house, although not make out the words. I am sure that this can be worked out, but people here (and near ODU) have to be persistent in talking to the appropriate people to ensure that schools don't just steamroll the rights of all citizens for several miles in every direction with their policies.
According to 21st B'day !!
1. Lets us imagine that 1/3 of students at ODU is under the age 21 = 23000/3 = 7667 students.
2. Out of these 7667 students, say 1/3 of them have party at their apartment when they reach the age of 21 = 7667/3 = 2555 students
3. We have 365 days so number of parties each week = 41
Now let me ask you a question: How did you celebrate your 21st B'day ?
Who Didn't Party In College
This is no more frequent than before or than any true College and University. I partied when I was in college but never had any problems w/ ODU/Norfolk PD. As a matter of fact I still know many of them by name from working with them in college for events. I will admit they need to get more activities for students near campus. There are 2 bars which don't cater to college students right there near campus & 2 closets of bars that do. Compare this to when there was the 4400 & Friar Tucks & a few more stuck up in the alleys. You would think in this market if someone wanted a quick buck you they would put a nightclub near the campus are to attract students & the school would be all for it.
ODU Growing Pains, part 2
Part 2 due to 750 char limit...
BTW, this problem is much worse at VCU which is in the much more urban city of Richmond. With 46K students, most of which live near-campus, students have completely taken over all the adjacent neighborhoods such a Oregon Hill. And this is with 20-30 story highrises built by VCU that barely cover freshmen. Sadly, Southern Larchmont will become nothing but a camp of university houses, and so will Lamberts Point and Colonial Place, and you can just blame it on "progress". Lets be real, the city has an interest in looking the other way, so does ODU, so this is just a commentary on a sign of the times, and nothing else...slum lords are already planning a take over I'm sure. Rich brats = EZ $$$$$.
ODU Growing Pains
I was a student from 2000-2008 who lived in Whitehurst my first year, then commuted from Newport News every day afterward (Webb Center became my second home, my car my book locker) until 2004. From 2005-08, I commuted from work from Suffolk, and grew to hate the Midtown Tunnel. So, I don't know personally about living on campus, but I thought ODU was and is a commuter school for the most part. However, I understand they are trying to chase commuters like me away, as parking is becoming less friendly each year with the eradication of the at-grade parking lots and forced use of garages, along with skyrocketing parking permit fees. Well anyways, at 22K students (per some alumi mag I got in the mail) and growing as ODU is trying to be "bigtime", I knew this day would come. Norfolk is hellbent on becoming a little Roman empire, and ODU promotes this mission, so the city is going to be soft on partying. While at Whitehurst back in 2000-01, student rentals had already penetrated Larchmont, but Lamberts Point was still ghetto. As for the partying, there's nothing you can do about it except tell ODU to downsize, which isn't happening anytime soon. BTW, this problem is much worse at
vabeachchick
"...if you live near a University you will have to deal with this behavior....If it bothers people that much, then maybe they should move somewhere else..."
Why am I not surprised? Kids with arrogant attitudes like this have no courtesy or respect for others. Even though you may think you can do whatever you want, you have no right to disturb the peace of those around you without consequences. When you grow up and become a responsible adult, hopefully you'll realize that.
Why are we defending irresponsble behaviour?
Vabeachchick is also an example of the result of failed parenting.It should NOT be the job of neighbors,police,or a university to teach the children of the world how to behave or that they need to consider those other than themselves...it should be done at home,by parents.Unfortunately more& more parents are failing miserably in this task,as can be witnessed by the enormous(& growing)numbers of young adults who are not capable of thinking beyond their own personal wants.I am a grad student,& most students I know have the attitude "I can do whatever I want,& I don't care if it bothers someone else".Students CAN have fun without having dunken free-for-alls that infringe on the rights of others.They REALLY can!!All they need to do is think of others..but most of them do not want to do this...they want to think only of themseleves.
lack of planning
A lot of colleges stick their students in high rise tower dorms that are close to campus. ODU made all their new ones 3 stories tall and all surrounding huge parking lots. Of course students are going to be forced into the neighboring areas nearby. ODU probably sees it as a better solution than actually being responsible for all the students that they are cramming onto its campus at maximum profit.
Balance
This is a constant struggle anywhere a university butts against a residential neighborhood, particularly an older neighborhood like Larchmont. Some decent, human communication goes a long way toward rectifying the problem. The students should keep parties relatively low-key and infrequent and reach out to neighbors ahead of time. The non-students might try going to the student house and talking to them rather than calling the police 80 times. Seeing the face and hearing the voice of the person you're affecting is much more powerful than having the authorities coming by all the time. All that does is vilify the person calling the police. The non-student also need to realize that, whether by choice or circumstances, they live in a college community. That college isn't going to go away, so residents must either find a way to co-exist or be miserable 24/7.
I would rather have college
I would rather have college kids next door to me than crack heads.
Co-Existing Difficult For Adverse Demographics
Students need to be given some room to enjoy their experience but not at the expense of the entire neighborhood. One of the problems contributing to this; there are limited choices for this demographic when socializing, ABC rules/regulations are way too conservative and out of step with other states like Florida, Louisana etc, etc, etc. Hopefully with some new leadership in place in government some outdated ABC regulations can be relaxed and a place/area designated for these students to socialize... responsibly.
back in the day..
You didn't have this sort of problem when Webb's Rathskellar was open. When King's Head, Tucks, 4400, The Class Room, et al were still open, the biggest complaint was about kids parking on the residential streets. When the Dean built himself a $440k house, he got patted on the back and carried on. When that guy left and the Board basically announced "We're gonna hire us a woman" (say "we're gonna hire us a man" and see how much respect you get), they got patted on the back and carried on. Then they built that overpriced eyesore on Hampton Blvd, took the basketball games out of Scope, got patted on the back and carried on.
So now ODU is the dog with the 25 foot leash and the neighbors are complaining? Too late.
ODU is spreading both ways
and its not always pretty. a few years before expansion started, Killam Ave and 38th were out of the "safe zone" and you rarely heard of students having problems. now a few houses are being renovated and college kids are living in neighborhoods that maybe they shouldn't be. its not one single group's fault. as a landlord, i am sure college kids are a step up over who he rented to before the renovation. college kids don't have the room to live on campus, and most students, when the money is there, would rather live off-campus anyway. the college may be the one to blame the most. they went on a mad land-grab, but didn't account for dorms. as far as Larchmont, the "nicer" community on the other side of ODU, i have a feeling it may only get worse for current non-ODU residents. the economy is down the tubes. a landlord can advertise a house for 1500/month and let it sit empty for a year, or rent it out for 1000 to a couple college kids. same with banks...if they foreclose on a house, it makes them no money sitting empty, and if no one is going to buy it, why not rent it to college kids? and if people are complaining now.....wait for Hampton Blvd. traffic on football gamedays............
College students and sailors
In the Larchmont area, it was the college students that had to learn via the police how to respect their neighbors by keeping their noise down and their partying under control. Around the rest of the area it is the young military personnel that seem to think they have a 'right' to party as loudly as they want and disturb their neighbors. Again, they learn how wrong they are after a visit or two from the local police. Somewhere or another the lesson of having respect for others has been lost on these people.
You live in a college town
Of course you are going to have to deal with college students and their antics. Not surprising.
VABCH Chick: Your arrogance is surpassed only by you ignorance
VA BEACH CHICK said: " ..if you live near a University you will have to deal with this behavior."
The Colonial Place residents who are bearing the brunt of this illegal behavior DID NOT choose to live near a university. The expansion of ODU has brought the University into their neighborhood. If I lived across the street from an ODU dorm, and I liked to celebrate the victory of my favorite NASCAR driver by firing semi-automatic weapons into the air in my front yard (similarly illegal activity), I don't expect that you would say, "... if you live near a gun-toting redneck you will have to deal with this behavior."
Bottom Line: Obey the Law, or suffer the consequences. College students, despite your contention, are NOT exempt. Deal with it!!
Archie
You should "expect" to be disappointed when reality sets in. Judge Judy and Disparate Housewives etc. are not popular shows because smart people watch them. BTW, what is "crapfully incorrect" mean? ROFL
Grow up VA Beach Chick!
Residents don't have to put up with the indiscretions of college students. I expect anyone old enough to rent a house, or a room, or go to college, to obey the law. I expect them to be mature enough to be decent neighbors. I expect them to act like adults and that they need to party is crapfully incorrect.