Beach's light-rail right of way may cost $40 million

Consider Salt Lake City, population 178,858 where 1,666.1 people live per square mile. They already have 3 light rail lines up and running, and 4 more under construction. They also have one commuter rail line running and just broke ground last year on an extension to that line.

Virginia Beach on the other hand has a population of 435,619, with 1,712.7 people per sq mile. Add to that nearly 230,000 living in Norfolk and the popluation served rivals Charlotte, NC, which also has light rail.

If light rail works in car loving, conservative Salt Lake City, it can work in Virginia Beach.

There seems to be a lot of mixing "mass transit" with the specific proposed light rail line running down the NS right of way. THIS PROJECT is a waste of tax dollars, an "want" for developers, and not going to help ruduce traffic congestion - while resulting in VERY EXPENSIVE (between $8M to $12M a year!) in local (VA BEACH taxpayers) subsidies because those that will ride the LRT are not going to be charges fares that actually cover the cost of the service they are demanding. The "mass transit" lobby wants to try to frame this PROJECT in terms of those that oppose the wasteful government spending as somehow opposing all "mass transit". This is a false and deceptive ploy. THIS PROJECT is a horrific waste of tax funds at a time evry dollar should be used for the most critical NEEDS, not politcal payback for those that dumped a lot of $$$ into Mayor Sessom's $600,000 campaign to buy the Mayor's chair and a seat on the MPO. LRT is sensible in some high density urban settings. The NS line is not such a case. We have much higher NEEDS for our limited tax funds.

I get the impression some people here would be happy to return to the days of horses and buggies, given the similarity between your complaints about light rail and those of people who opposed the nation's first highways. We must plan and build for the needs of the future, not some outdated perception of what we used to be. We're riding around on, drinking water from and using a variety of other public infrastructures that were largely put in place and paid for by our parents and grandparents. We cannot leave for our children and grandchildren a legacy of failing bridges, worn out highways, broken water systems and such. Light rail is an important element in an integrated regional transportation system and critical to solving what most Hampton Roads people say is the biggest problem facing our region.

People who don't want to be associated with responsible community planning will probably be happier in a smaller, simpler place. There are lots of small towns in the Dakotas that would welcome you.

The same old comments: We don't need Light Rail. It's too expensive and I won't use it. I wonder what these same people will say when gas prices will rise past $3.00 a gallon and they won't have an alternative other than their gas-guzzling SUVs? Those same people was riding a HRT bus for a few times a week to save gas! IMHO, Light Rail is a necessary evil. All the big cities have it. Show me a city that has great Mass Transit and I'll show you a city that thinks those SUVs are just an unaffordable luxury and if those high gas prices do come back, then you got a cheaper alternative.

The current light rail line being constructed needs to be expanded into VA Beach. This community needs to get out of the mentality that their precious automobile is everything. The best way to move people efficiently is through mass transit options. Rails lines give better appearance and would increase ridership far more than any bus system ever will. Cost overruns are normal with any project. How much was the cost overrun of the last highway construction or expansion? Go to this for another view on the VA Beach line http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2009/01/using-what-you-purchase.html

Personal rapid transit (PRT) works a lot better than light rail.

Light rail costs too much, construction is too disruptive, it serves too few, it requires large stations, and it eats too much land.

Light rail is not the answer for mass transit.

PRT systems are smaller, can be built piecemeal, have very high efficiency rates, can be built with less disruption, and use very little land. They can also read far more of the area, including low population zones, than light rail.

We don't consider it because rail politics keeps it from happening.

If no one's going to ride light rail, like half of the folks here are saying, how is there going to be long lines and miserable trains? Every time the talk comes up for VB to get on board with this, people speak up with no idea of the impacts of a light rail system, or even better, MASS TRANSIT. This area is the armpit that it is because we lack that advantage, and companies notice it, not to mention events and such that would help the area out greatly. And let's look at the beach. How many people avoid going down there because the parking blows, or the parking lots are ripping everyone in their brother off? I can stay in downtown Norfolk at a hotel, or better yet, in Portsmouth, catch the ferry, and then catch the rail out to the ocean front. Less pollution, less traffic, and MORE MONEY going into VB's coin purse. The area benefits from it in more than one angle, but. No, it's a waste of time. There should be an ID check at all of the stations so they can charge folks extra who are going to or returning from VB, since no one in VB thinks it to be worth while.

NS thinks the 10 mile stretch is worth 40 million??? Great! Lets reassess the property value and let NS start paying the appropriate real estate taxes!!!!!

3.8 million a mile is only the beginning of mass city expenditure for nothing. This boondogle is nothing more than Sessom's dream of financing development along a rail line at the benefit of his bank and himself all at the expense of the Va Beach taxpayer. You can bet your bottom dollar that real estate taxes will go up considerably for this taxpayer subsidized socialist mess. That rail line serves no one in the region save a few. Think about it, how many people live at the beach and work in downtown Norfolk or otherwise? You people that voted for this schmuck would have done just as well voting for Mike Barrett instead. Talk about the fox in the hen house. This is just beyond comprehension.....

"Virginia Beach does not need light rail. It will do nothing to build the ecomony or increase the quality of life of its citizens."

Bingo. Well done. VB Council listen.

The light rail would have definitely benefitted Va Beach...but the City Council decided to keep throwing money at the Town Center instead...that's where their priorities are.

always shows the negative effects of light rail.. not the millions of dollars of business and jobs are being created by the addition of light rail to hampton roads. look at all the TOD in Norfolk.. wachovia center currently under construction.. westin being built this year.. they don't talk about hampton roads become a major metropolitan area they talk about paying 40 million for a right of way.

It seems to me that NS should be anxious to get rid of the liability and be willing to deal. As far as I know, they have no plans to use it, and it only costs them money to keep it maintained. I have no idea how they assign a value to something which has no buyers competing for it.

I may be wrong but I due not think RR pay real estate taxes on tracks. They were given allot of land through land grants to build RR back in the day. They profit from selling land given to them by the government wow let me get on that GrrrrrrrGRAVY TRAIN. If they are paying taxes and they say it is worth 40 million show me the tax bill

The value of a dead end street
Norfolk southern RR to the beach

Norfolk Southern wants to hijack the beach for 3.8m per mile vice 1.5m. The line is not connected and has no value or can be used, therefore, worthless to them. It would cost them millions to reconnect the line. Was it not given to them back in the day by the government and should it be return to the public if not used. In fact in may be a public nuscience since they are not maintaining it by cleaning the weeds, trash etc. I think the Beach should file a public notice requiring them to clean up and fence off the area repair or remove all grade crossings. Plus who pays top dollar to live next to a railroad tracks. Sorry, I forgot VA beach always pays millions over the value of land like the property on Laski Road next to Princess Anne golf course to save Oceana. Sorry My Bad.

This train to nowhere will only be useful if it goes somewhere. From Norfolk to the beach is somewhere, otherwise it just goes nowhere.

Now we know what really went on behind closed doors during the secretive pre-Christmas gathering, attended by P.T. Sessoms, who wasn't even sworn in as mayor yet, along with Stolle and NS brass.

Wake up Virginia Beach!!!!!!! Write every member of the Virginia General Assembly and voice your opposition to Stolle's Budget Admendment (Item 449 #2s).

State budget shortfall of 2.9 BILLION!!!! VB city budget shortfall of 80 MILLION!!!!

Educate yourself....here is the link to Stolle's Admendment:

http://leg2.state.va.us/WebData/09amend.nsf/4da5825decb101e085256c7d006d2628/5e2027e62082521d852575450053ec64?OpenDocument

Stolle's and P.T. Sessoms' "Train to Nowhere" is a lot like Palin's "Bridge to Nowhere". Pork Barrel Gouging!!!

Leo wouldn't be so willing if it was HIS property that VB was going to seize. Perhaps VB will seize his house and property for a park and ride for this steel elephant affectionally called light rail.

Yea! I am going to be laid off because the city wants to spend 64 million on Town Center and now 40 million on land for light rail. Thanks Mr. Sessoms. At least I can say I did not vote for you!

Ugh, Leo. NS owns the land and the right of ways. Your solution is called Communism - government seizes the land and pays nothing. It is not corporate welfare. Sheesh. That being said I do not think we need to let NS gouge us. Have three appraisals done and take the middle one. I am against light rail, so I would just as soon not buy it in the first place.