State's police chiefs seek veto of guns-in-bars bill
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VIRGINIA BEACH
Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.
"We can fully expect that at some point in the future a disagreement that today would likely end up in a verbal confrontation, or a bar fight, will inevitably end with gunfire if you sign this legislation into law," Jacocks wrote.
SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.
On Tuesday, Jacocks got support from Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms, a McDonnell supporter and gun owner.
"Not only is it stupid," Sessoms said, "I think it could be a fatal mistake."
But their efforts seem unlikely to sway McDonnell.
McDonnell will sign the bill, said Taylor Thornley, the governor's spokeswoman. While McDonnell appreciates the work and comments of the police chiefs, he will "continue to protect and uphold the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens," Thornley said.
The bill deals only with concealed weapons; in Virginia it's legal to carry a gun openly without a permit.
SB334 and its House counterpart, along with legislation that allows gun owners without concealed-carry permits to store firearms in locked vehicle compartments, were among the gun-friendly bills approved by the General Assembly this year. The Democratic-controlled Senate formed a special subcommittee late in the session to kill several gun-rights bills, including a repeal of the state's one-handgun-purchase-a-month limit.
The police chiefs association has opposed the guns in bars bill in the past, but it also had a more sympathetic ear. Former Democratic Gov. Timothy M. Kaine twice vetoed such bills.
The Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police didn't come out strongly against the bills during the session because it was spread too thin trying to preserve state funding for police departments, said Dana Schrad, the organization's executive director.
"We didn't duck and cover on this one," Schrad said. "We had to prioritize on budget issues."
The Virginia Sheriffs' Association, the other large law-enforcement lobby in the General Assembly, did not take a stand on the legislation, said John Jones, the organization's executive director.
"No, we're not going down that road," Jones said.
But association members recently did vote on a resolution supporting Second Amendment rights, Jones said.
Jacocks and Schrad did acknowledge that the letter was a last-ditch effort.
"It was important to let him know directly how we felt about this issue," Jacocks said.
If police across Virginia see an increase in gun violence at bars, the association will come back and ask the General Assembly to reconsider its decision, Schrad said.
Statistics on gun-related incidents at establishments with liquor licenses were not available Tuesday.
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Hey Rerun50
Do you really think your John Doe in his state of mind cares about laws? If the law gets passed, would he do what you describe? Yes! If the law doesn't get passed, would he do what you described? Yes! Someone hell-bent on killing others and then killing themselves isn't gonna stop at the door of the pub and say to themselves, "Oh gee, can't do my mass-murder/suicide here, the bill allowing guns in restaurants didn't pass." Wake up to reality pal!
Man goes berserk in bar.
John Doe lost his job today. He went home says good-bye to his wife. Goes to the local bar, and have a few drinks. Someone says something to him, that he takes offense to. He pulls out his 9 mm, and starts shooting. After killing 12 and critically wounding 5. He tells the bartender to bring him a bottle, and get out. After emptying The bottle, he puts the gun in his mouth, and blows the top of his head off. If this bill is passed, I will be drinking my booze at home.
question
What's stopping this person from doing this now? Do you really think a law is going to stop him?
Carry Permit Holders Are Not Insane Wierdos
Citizens to whom a circuit court has issued a concealed carry permit are responsible citizens who have provided proof of training and have undergone criminal background checks. Permits are not issued to insane wierdos. The police cannot protect you from violent criminals, but can only investigate the crime after the fact. Therefore citizens are responsible for their own security. Those who choose not to be armed are the beneficiary of those who do, because a legally armed citizenry is a deterrent which protects the general public from evil persons whom we share our community with. Violent criminals prefer a victim rich environment where they will not expect any rersistance. Examplks which come to mind are Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, the vehicle entrance to the CIA in Fairfax County and various schools and resturants where unarmed people have been murdered by people who choose victims in gun free zones. The only way to stop an active shooter is to engage and kill him. It's hard to do that with just a chair.
Remember Luby's Massacre? On October 16, 1991, Hennard drove his 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's Cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas
Guns in Bars
It has been my observation over many years, such as the "Police Chiefs" support of the Brady Bill and their political views is that they do not represent the attitude of the many police officers I know or have known. The Guns in Bars is kind of a misnomer to start with. If you realize that a restaurant that serves mainly meals but also offers wine or beer a place that is included as off limits for Concealed Carry, then at least you are informed of what the current law is. If you know that we commoners are not allowed to drink if we are carrying, then you are probably amongst the minority as the liberals are trying to paint this as an old west type scenario. Of course this does not apply to Police Officers or Commonwealths attorneys and their minions as they can both carry and drink there. No, it is just to their "subjects". By law now, you may open carry in a Bar as long as the owner allows, but not drink.
This is a senseless objection, in my opinion, in view of the above since this law actually disallows drinking while carrying.
The Bad guys will do it anyway, without the law and this just levels the playing field for the Good Guys. Any Area designated as "Gun Free" offers a per
stupid law
Only a moron would carry a loaded gun into a bar! That's all I have to say!
The Anti-Self Defense Emos Continue to Contradict themselves
Its funny. You have been legally allowed to carry a gun AND drink in a "bar" (which doesn't exist in VA) for a LOOOOOOOOONG time now.
Can anyone point me to the Wild West shootings?
How about the blood in the streets?
Um....how about ANY proof whatsoever that integrating law abiding citizens who carry a gun and a restaurant that serves alcohol...is problematic?
You tell us that you don't need a gun in a restaurant. When you couple that often raised point with the fact that gun owners ALREADY HAVE BEEN carrying into restaurants....you can see that the hypothetical situations that you loony toons continue to manufacture aren't true. We already carry into restaurants and you continue to state that there is no reason to protect yourself in them. That means that the people carrying guns into restaurants have yet to cause ANY problems.
Emos. Common sense and intelligence will ALWAYS trump immature emotional reaction. You are fighting a LOSING battle.
WOW!
Looks we've got an idiot for a Governor!
Huh?
Is there anything more foolish than allowing drinkers to bring their guns with'em? The very first fatality caused by a " gunny " ought to be followed by a suit against Governor McDonnell. Sue that sucker for every dime he's got!
More guns, more Jesus
McDonnell only listens to Pat Robertson, our psycho AG Cuccinelli, Exxon, Texaco, and the NRA. All you liberal commie police chiefs, you're just wasting your time. Get ready chiefs, you guys are in for busy summer once this bill is signed.
WWJS
WWJS
What Would Jesus Shoot
really?
If there were a sharp uptick in violence when this bill becomes law it would be the first time it's ever happened in the US.
Here's an idea: how about you argue in favor of your point of view by providing verifiable facts instead of unsubstantiated conjecture and name calling?
You can't, of course, because the facts aren't on your side.
The real reason
The underlying fear of all these anti-gun people was explained in a comment made on the polling site. He said that he would never own a handgun because he would shoot a driver on a cellphone or a Governor who made political decisions with which he disagreed.
That's the thing that they fear. They know that THEY could not act responsibly, therefore they assume that WE cannot do so.
Most of us, however, have grown up by the time we get our CHPs.
Or Maybe
Or maybe the Virginia Beach Chief of Police might like to be the anti-gun debater. That would be fine also. But he will not accept my offer either.
VB Police Chief
i know jake. he's usually very pro gun. there must be somehting or someone else thats pushing him to say this
really?
It sounds like Chief Jake is a reasonable person who realizes this new gun law is a recipe for disaster. I can't say the same about you.
VB Police Chief
i know jake. he's usually very pro gun. there must be somehting or someone else thats pushing him to say this
Challenge to a Debate
I challenge any Pilot reporter to an open and public debate on guns and gun control. Their person talks for 12 minutes, I talk for 12 minutes, their person talks for 12 minutes, and I talk for 12 minutes. No commentator to slant the debate. After we talk the audience asks questions. But, of course, the Pilot will not take me up on the challenge. In a toe to toe debate they would lose their advantage of being able to avoid the real facts of the issue. But if they are interested, they know were to find me.
Anti-Gun Nuts. Sometimes you just have to be honest.
You can't use fear, intimidation and emotion to argue EVERYTHING. Try researching statistics and arguing based upon them. I know its scary using those facts and statistics. They require more than an education. They require......INTELLIGENCE. Not even that.....COMMON SENSE. It may hurt at first anti-gun whackos....but if you dig for the facts BEFORE you reach your conclusion...your conclusion will be much more accurate. I know, I know. You prefer to create your conclusion FIRST and then search all over for whatever....ANYTHING that may help support your agenda based conclusion. But people are onto you anti-gun fascists. This is why gun control and progressivism are losing ground all across the country. People are understanding that for YOU this is all about agenda. About an ends which is the eventual banning of guns. The means is incremental gun control just small enough piece by piece that you can sugar coat it as "common sense".
Instead of being loyalists to a political agenda why not just try to do what works? Support the right for law abiding people to defend their lives. For the life of me I just don't understand why this offends the far left so much. Is it
Is it really better to leave a loaded weapon in the car?
Some random streams of consciousness …
• Assuming that I’m legally carrying a weapon, it is now perceived to be more responsible to leave said weapon in an unattended vehicle than to take it with me while I go get a burger and soda …
• Today, it is legal to carry a weapon into an establishment that serves alcohol, provided that it is not concealed. From where do you really anticipate an issue to arise, from the guy with the gun, or the show-off at the other table with his newly acquired beer muscle who spots it?
• Corollary … there is currently no probation from consuming alcohol, provided that the weapon is visible, provided you don’t become legally intoxicated. Gun concealed - bad ... gun visible - good.
• It is deemed more unsafe for me to carry a weapon and not drink, than it is to not carry a weapon, drink, and get behind the wheel of a 2-ton vehicle
• The ‘unenforceable drinking law’ assumes that (1) prior to it’s passage, I obeyed the law by not carrying a weapon into a restaurant and (2) once it becomes legal, I will then decide to break the law with having a beer with my burger. Trying to frame this in the old ‘if A = B and B = C