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How about an answer that says "I already have, many times, and I will now enjoy not having to drive all the way to Newport News?" A real sign of progress for Norfolk --- we'll be a real city yet!
Ditto. No more long term parking in Hampton. Now we need to sync the Tide and the train. Sure it takes longer than driving but it is also less hassle and it's reasonable given the price of gasoline and parking. I also get work done on the train and have some quiet time to relax....things you cannot do if you drive. And the idea that I can go without a change of trains to NYC is very appealing. This is the first step..... a baby step. The high speed will bring the 21st century to Virginia rail travel. I hope it too happens on schedule.
Wait till your relaxing, maybe dozing off, and some ones cellphone rings. Talks load enough for the engineer to hear him and your both in the caboose. I was going to say I would ride it, but then I remembered that I said that about LR but I haven't ridden it yet either. I'll stay with the auto where my expectations aren't so high.
If one wishes to sleep, then one would head for the quiet car where cell phones must be turned off or silenced and talking on one is not allowed.
I was in the "no cell phone car". Fat chance on getting every one to comply with the rules. If you think every one complies, spend a day in traffic court.
Well I can't explain your sighting, but normally the quiet car is quite quiet. Yes, some people stumble in there by accident, but they are usually and generally quickly informed of the error of their ways by those in the car.
And failing that, usually a conductor will be summoned to make it happen.
Yes, maybe right around a major holiday with trains oversold things might breakdown some. But normally things are pretty quiet in quiet car.
Zero compliance is one of the silliest lines of reasoning to be against something there is. Why do we keep building roads if there's a fat chance of getting everyone to follow the speed limit? Or not drink and drive? Or not drive tired?
It's such a capricious and arbitrary stance. Especially when you're comparing riding in a quiet car to driving. The result of non-compliance in the first is the horror of a disrupted nap. The result of non-compliance in the second was 32,885 dead Americans in 2010.
big goovy who wants to stop building roads, umm you can walk, ride a bicycle/horse, what ever you choose but this country will always build roads because it is a freedom of people to choose how to travel, and roadways will always be a choice. Don't fly, ride, drive or walk outside is the only way to never chance an accident, but don't try to take away the freedom the roadways offer to everyone else.
Now you're really confused! The only one seeking to take away freedom here is you!
You want to tell people that they can't use trains, you seek to deny people the Freedom of Choice. You seek to deny them the choice of using a car, a bus, or a train.
No one here is pushing to take away roads! The only one pushing to take away anything is you! You are the one seeking to take away people's freedom; you are the one seeking to dictate the choices of travel to people!
shouldn't compare p-lines to roadways, they don't compare, confused much?
My point was that the lack of total compliance with laws is a silly argument to make against something. Towards the end there you seem to be making the same argument, which means we agree. Yet, most of your response is spent being adversarial and failing at attempts to call me names.
Maybe you spend too much time driving. With other, passive commuter options you can focus on reading books about logic and rhetoric, sharpening those analytical reasoning skills. That way you won't do something silly like accuse someone of trying to "take away the freedoms the roadway offers" when no such thing was suggested.
are confused, you said why continue to build roads, and I stated why. Maybe you can sharpen the point on your head, and read more books.
i try not to go any farther north than newpa new if i can help it. now if the train went from norfolk to orlando sure, i might try it. but if i gotta go to dc to go to fla forget it. FAIL
The train does go from Norfolk to Orlando without going through DC...
The trains are subsidized immensely by the taxpayers and don't go where I go. Not convenient, cheaper and quicker to drive, times to ride are weird, and just plain old fashioned means of transporting people. One hundred years ago it was a good idea due to lack of roads, lack of cars, less people, less congested cities, and not subsidized by the citizens.
Yes, trains are subsidized immensely, but then again so is the entire highway system for your car that you value so much.
To say that the train isn't any cheaper than driving isn't true. You can go from here to NYC for $63 (with advanced purchase) and takes just under 9 hours. It will cost you more than that in gas (figure 2 fill ups of car) and tolls alone. You'd get there maybe an hour and half sooner? You haven't even gotten into wear and tear on your car, traffic, etc.
Worse than Amtrak in fact. In 2011 Amtrak managed to cover 69% of its expenses without help from the Fed.
We drivers on the other hand only managed to cover 51% of the costs of our highways via fuel taxes and other direct fees. The local streets are paved far more with property taxes than fuel taxes.
comparing roads to passenger trains, every person alive, even those who don't drive benefit from the roads as all products we buy, eat, use etc, comes via roadway. Only people who ride the train benefit there, people who don't ride never benefit from trainwreck. Don't compare trainwreck to roadways as there is no comparison.
In fact, 40% of all freight moves by rail in this country. Only 28% moves by truck.
And it is also false to say that you don't benefit from trains if you don't ride trains. Out in Portland, OR their buses moved 219,728,219 passenger miles in 2011. Their light rail trains moved 215,384,677 passenger miles.
The taxpayers out there benefit from the trains because they only spent $93,399,347 running the trains and $222,887,559 on buses. Twice as much to do the same job!
They also benefit due to reduced congestion. According to the Texas Transportation Institute, if all transit went away drivers would see an extra 5.581 million hours in delays and $114 Million in costs. And trains account for half of that! That's no trainwreck!
the trains pull up to grocery, restuarants or any retail store??? NO the stuff is delivered by truck from the roadway. Plaaaaleeease spout crap to libs who actually believe it and also in fairy tales. Again don't compare trainwrecks to roads.!!!!! ever!!!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
And it's not just libs that are smart enough to know that trains have great benefits. Many smart conservatives know that too! There are actually people out there who do understand facts, even if you don't.
And you don't get to tell me what to do either. This is a public website where all opinions and facts are welcome.
Finally, just for the non-believe in facts, namely you; here is the proof that drivers in Portland do benefit from trains.
Bottom of page #7.
By the way, the people at the Texas Transportation Institute are this country's leading experts on congestion; unlike you. Don't believe it? Then prove it wrong if you can!
compare dead rail to roadways on this site or anywhere ever again. There is no comparison, enjoy your kool aid with your toilet paper.
Still waiting for your factual rebuttal to the Texas Transportation Institute, backed up by links to verifiable facts.
Of course you have nothing, meaning that my comparison of trains to highways still stands. I'm not the one drinking the kool-aid; I've got the facts on my side. You haven't provided a single fact to the contrary. Those without facts are the one's drinking the kool-aid.
This is a video of a train delivering lumber to a store for sale. Take note of what the company wrote in the description about how many trucks those trains take off the roads.
trains are NOT passenger trains but you can keep comparing apples to airplanes if it helps you swallow the kool aid. One train delivering lumber is ridiculous to what we're talking here, but so is obamomma care and dems thinking a deal will be struck, HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH how ridiculous.
Here, let me refresh your memory, you said: "Do the trains pull up to grocery, restuarants or any retail store??? NO the stuff is delivered by truck from the roadway."
And I just proved you wrong with a video showing a train pulling up to a retail store proving you wrong once again. Just like I've disproved everything else you've said. You're long on talk, but short on facts!
mistake to cover, your mistake was/is comparing passenger trains in this case amtrak to wherever, to roadways but again there is no comparison only riders benefit from subsidy, NO one else, EVERY person alive in the world benefits from the roadways, END of story, have more koolaid and play with your obamay doll.
And you can't even admit the truth.
I agree that roads are important and I've never once said otherwise. But I also know that our trains are important too. One can't take away something that saw American's take 4.5 billion rides on last year without suffering consequences.
And I'm still waiting for you to disprove the Texas Transportation Institute's proof that you do indeed benefit from passenger rail. Of course because everyone here knows that you can't disprove it, which is why you continue to dance around the issue and deflect from it.
Just to show how wrong you are again; I voted for President Ronald Reagan years ago. The man who created the Mass Transit Account to fund projects like The Tide. He understood what you don't!
tide is garbage, don't force that garbage down vb's throat, dead rail works where it is needed, but not in vb, just a joy ride train wreck, vb should spend the money elsewhere.
No one forced anything down the throats of VB's residents. VB went to the polls and voted for it!
misinformed public went to the polls and maybe voted for it but I don't trust the vote count but what do we expect from cooruption.
City after city in this country has become living proof that light rail works, and that it costs less than remaining a bus only city.
taxpayers don't know the cost, or how it will be paid for or how screwed they will be, they just think it is a circus ride, but it along with arena and conv center will bankrupt the city because all will be failures!!!! You need repairable therapy.
You need to learn and understand facts!
From 1996 - 2011 inclusive:
Portland, Oregon has spent $2.905 Billion on light rail and $3.111 Billion on buses.
St. Louis has spent $1.891 Billion on light rail and $2.037 Billion on buses.
Denver has spent $2.986 Billion on light rail and $3.908 Billion on buses.
That's both operating & capital (costs to build) combined.
So I'm sorry, but the only one who has no idea of the costs around here is You!
dead rail is garbage and fleecing the people of vb, don't show other cities, we're different and it won't work!!!!!!!!!! So I'm sorry, but the only one who has no idea of the costs around here is You! I know the cost for vb will be 1.6 billion for starters. Look into repairable therapy, you will be better off.
If you ever manage to post some facts, I'll certainly consider them.
But so far you haven't managed to post a single fact.
is wrong again, 100% of everything moves by truck on roadways. Try this experiment, shut down the trains for a month, not much happens. Do the same for all roadways, after a week, when you have no food, etc and the thing you miss the most toilet paper, you will cry like the biggest kool aid drinking baby, please open the roads, i can't take no more, roads win, roads win!! Forever!!!
No trains for a month means no coal to our power plants. No power means there will be no need to go buy groceries as your fridge will be out of action. And you won't be able to drive there either, since there will be no gas in your car.
No trains for a month will mean gridlock in our cities. NY City just choked the day after Sandy when it had no trains running. And despite being the most populous city in the US by a large margin, NYC doesn't rank first in traffic congestion. LA does!
I'm not denying that our roads are important. Heck, I love driving my car and I have no intention of giving it up. But unlike you, I don't have my head in the sand ignoring the fact that our trains are just as important as our heavily subsidized roads.
is double wrong again, I won't miss a thing, I can live forever without passenger trains, trains suckle but you can' live a minute without the roads, don't try it it won't work, I'll burn wood, and hunt for food and won't have to go anywhere because of your silly train, but remember no roads you die.
Guess you failed history too.
Years ago we depended on trains for everything. It was only after throwing Trillions in subsidies at the roads that we changed things a bit.
And again, today trains still move more freight than the roads. And despite what you might like to think, passenger trains are even making a comeback with more and more smart American's riding them each day.
So whether you ever wake up or not, you are still benefiting from those trains, because all those on a train aren't in front on you on the highway.
are no passenger trains in vb, so momma is triple wrong again, 'So whether you ever wake up or not, you are still benefiting from those trains, because all those on a train aren't in front on you on the highway' so it sad to lose but you do.
You just stay totally, 100% within the confines of VB. You never, even go anyplace else huh?
No wonder you have no clue about the real world if you never leave your sheltered life in your house!
By the way, bad news. A train will be coming to VB soon. And it will force you to save on your taxes over the bus and it will force you to have to suffer through less traffic on the roads in just a few years.
train is coming to vb, it won't cause anything except higher taxes if it did come and bankrupt the city.
Have fun living in fantasyland!
Virginia Beach is a totally unreal place. Chesapeake tops it, but this entire area is living in a dream underwritten by high defense spending!
Trucking moves approximately two-thirds of freight tonnage nationally. Marine vessels move nearly 20 percent of freight tonnage, a large portion of that international shipments. Rail moves 15 percent of U.S. freight tonnage, and aircraft move only 0.1 percent.
In value terms, trucking is by far the dominant domestic freight mode. Figure 2-3 shows the value of 2002 freight shipments by mode. Trucking accounts for three-quarters of freight shipment value, followed by parcel, postal, and courier shipments (12 percent), which often move by truck or a combination of air and truck.
Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Now go back and look at Figure 2.1, which shows that rail's percentage has actually grown from the 40% that I quoted to 47%.
That's the important number, because that represents how many tons aren't on our roads for all those miles further trashing the roads & highways.
Who do you think subsidizes the highway system? If you knew your economic history, you would realize that the automobile and truck transport was hugely subsidized with deliberate pollitical decisions in the early part of the twentieth century. It continues to be so. If we paid the true costs for maintaining our means of motor transport, we'd hop on a train in a minute. There are shared costs for operating any transportation system, like it or not. But unlike automobile transportation, the prices of rail ridership is likely to decrease per passenger while the costs of increased auto traffic is now showing a steady trend upward.
Once getting over the initial trepidation of learning how rail transportation systems operate, I favor taking the train above using the car. It's so convenient and relaxing. As another reader posts, you can make use of that time; read, prepare, reflect safely, sharpen up your act. Because it's a great place to people watch, I find myself dressing a bit better. If only Virginia Beach would refurbish its tracks and start connecting, access to the world would be available from home.
Has anyone noticed that Norfolk to DC is about the worst time? A typical drive to NY would take you about 8 hours, so approx. 9 hours is pretty darned reasonable; 12 hours to Boston? Pretty competitive with travel by car. But FIVE HOURS to DC, which is typically just over 3 hours by car? That is absolute nonsense. Considering that the projected 1 hour flight for is only about 50 bucks more, who would even waste their time?
Can I smoke on the train? No?
Does it stop at interesting places on the way back and forth? No?
Are there bound to be crying babies? Yep!
No thanks. I'll drive myself. I like the freedom of stopping when/where I want and smoking without violating some do-gooder law.
Glad to hear you won't be complaining about highway congestion or the price of gas. Driving is a good option for you, but the train may be a better option for many people. If you'd ever lived in Europe, you would understand that the train can be a huge stress reliever and way to relax. I've never taken a train trip I didn't enjoy, but will admit, freight traffic competition might be better coordinated to make a passenger system really efficient in the USA as it is in Europe.
If Amtrak accepts the AAA and Vet discount cards, why won't HRT? And would it be so hard to put a LRT like ticket machine at Harbor Park for Amtrak trips?
I don't know of any city based transit agency that accepts AAA. A few do offer veteran's a discount. And almost all offer some sort of senior discount.
As for a Quik-Trak machine (what Amtrak calls its LRT type ticket machines) they won't until they know that there is enough business to warrant such a machine. And with the advent of eTickets, where you can just print out your ticket at home on your printer, frankly there really isn't too much incentive for Amtrak to put such an expensive machine in the station.
Even if you forget your printout, the conductor can still look up your reservation and check you in. Heck you can even use your cell phone and call Amtrak right from the station to make a reservation; just write down the number.
If you purchase online, Amtrak absolutely accepts AAA discounts.
AlanB and Big Southern, I appreciate your constancy in responding to those posters who are "opinion rich" and "factually underprivileged". Although you are unlikely to change their minds, those in the undecided column have the benefit of some good information.
As to why the journey from Norfolk to DC is so long compared to DC to New York, the number of rail lines makes the biggest difference. Between Norfolk and DC, we have one "through" line that both freight and passenger trains share, with freight having the right of way. Past DC, multiple lines run north. Average speeds on that leg of the journey, therefore, are considerably higher.
As an aside, anyone who can get from Norfolk to DC by car under four hours is "flying low"!
It is a younger persons world now. Younger people want these things like LRT and Amtrak moving them around instead of driving a car. I am an older person but I have an open mind and to be honest I would prefer riding the train to driving or flying [which I don't like doing]. Everything to do with transportation is subsidized, that is the way of the world. Try riding the train you might like it. If you are single or maybe 'empty nesters', it could be a good trip, tho if you have that family of four, it will get a bit expensive.
I'm gonna text the whole way there.
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