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Poll Question

Posted to: News

Which presidential candidate are you voting for?
Disclaimer: This is an unscientific sampling of users. Poll results may not update instantaneously, but your vote will be counted.

How to be civil in comments:

 No name-calling, personal insults or threats. No attacks based on race, gender, ethnicity, etc. No writing with your Caps Lock on – it's screaming. Keep on topic and under 1500 characters. No profanity or vulgarity. Stay G- or PG-rated. Read the full rules here.

I'm joe the plumber and

I'm Joe the plumber and will join the million of other "Joe's" and vote for Obama/Biden.

I have listened to all the hate, lies, and exaggerations coming from the McCain/Palin supporters, and It's gone way over the top.

At one point I considered McCain, but not after he named Palin as his running mate, and after I listened to all the negative campaigning from each of them. Take into consideration McCain's support of George Bush, and my decision quickly changed to Obama/Biden who I feel will make the best attempt of turning this county around.

to Gertz Point

You are really quite funny. Just a quick glance at your previous posts shows that you would have never voted for a Republican. Don't even try to say differently. Did you know that blaming the lack of your support on Palin is a Democratic talking point? Good democrat. Way to go!

I'll be voting enthusiastically for McCain because of Palin.

Gertz

I find it hard to believe you ever considered voting for McCain. Especially when you posted this comment prior to Palin being picked:

"I hate this presidential election
Submitted by Gertz Point on Thu, 07/31/2008 at 1:51 pm.
I'm not an Obama fan and even less for McCain. I will probably vote for Obama, but it would make me fee better if it was an Obama/Kaine ticket.

Good article!"

MCCAIN/PALIN

JOhn McCain and Sarah Palin are the only ones who actually care about this country and can back it up with their history of service. Actually, Sarah Palin is more qualified and more experienced than Obama. Obama has ZERO knowledge of world affairs. He would make this country weak by cutting defense spending. McCain has given his blood for this country,and Sarah is a very capable and powerful women with Christain morals. She was not planning to be in politics and that is what makes her so refreshing. VOTE MCCAIN!

Don't listen to the Republican Hype.

I'm Peter the self-employed (which Joe the Plumber isn't), and I'll be voting for Mr. Obama. I make around $180k a year, and have spent a good deal of time reading over each parties tax plan. Enough said.

Not enough

Enough said.

Nope. How about some details of why you like Obama's tax plan?

Vote for John McCain

Solidarity for the military and a true American!

Response to Peterc

Peterc, you are indeed fortunate and I'm always happy to see someone succeed. I'm sure you deserve every dollar that you earn. The point, however is this; how much will you have remaining from your $180,000 after the Obama administration is finished with you? You may have read Obama's tax plans but you certainly didn't understand them. Perhaps you are a Democrate that believes only the Republicans will see tax increases under the Obama plan, but you will soon realize that the new tax plans will get us all. All you have to do is look back on history; when you raise taxes, everyone looses. When you keep taxes low, jobs are created and everyone benefits. Good luck Peterc, you will need it.

Comment for Gertz Point

You were never a "Joe the Plummer" and please don't pretend that you are. Further don't ask me to believe for a moment that you ever considered voting for Sen John McCain. Maybe the lie you tell makes you feel better, but its still a lie and you know it. What I see in you is a typical Democrate, one who is devoid of any desire to know the issues of the day and one who listens and accepts the sound bites offered by the local news outlets. And you never question what it is that you are being told. For some reason, you believe every story knowing its slanted and onesided and then you have the gull to regurgitate this junk as if you knew what you were talking about. You are the typical of voter the liberls loves to latch onto every 4 years - ill informed and willing to stay that way. You haven't the sence to do your own research to determine the difference between political retoric and the real truth and as a result, you find yourself spewing hate and regurgitating the talking points of the liberal media and they love you for your help. How sad that we must depend on people such as yourself who knows so little of the critical issues that our nation faces today and then to know th

Obama/Biden

The economic plan put forth by Obama/Biden is far superior to McCain's plan to continue, indeed exacerbate, the Bush plan. In another column, commenters were talking about the Obama plan as giving someone a fish and the McCain plan as teaching people how to fish. If anyone truly believes that, then they fit the definition of insanity pretty well: they expect to be able to repeat the same input and get a different result. McCain talks about cutting the capital gains tax and cutting corporate tax rates (we already have the second lowest effective corporate tax rate in the western world). Nearly all economists say McCain's plan is ridiculous, as capital gains are already too low and the corporate tax rates do not need to be lowered. At this point, a person making millions in the market (if any such person still exists) would pay tax at a rate of 15%, whereas a person working for a living would be paying 15.3% even if all he paid were social security and medicare/medicaid. Studies show that approximately 75% of the benefit of the reduced capital gains rate would go to people in the top 1% of income and about 93% to those in the top 20%. Although I fit into the top 1%, I would p

John McCain has my vote!

Unlike Mr. Change, (Obama), who says only words and gives polished speeches. We really know nothing about him because he won’t release his records. We know of John McCain’s whole record and career as an experienced legislator. Bringing Sarah Palin onboard shattered the glass ceiling and with her executive experience as a mayor and governor gives her and the McCain ticket a well rounded national and world package that insider’s in Washington, D.C. won’t like because they are not cut from the same old insider and liberal fabric. John McCain & Sarah Palin will keep Virginia in the Red.

Wisdom from 1932

Mr. Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Fear is what McCain and Palin are basing their campaign on.

I'm joe the accountant

After seeing the tax INCREASE I'd get under Obama I'll be voting McCain. I make under $100K. Have any of you looked beyond 2009? Under Obama's plan, I'll get a nice tax break in '09, but '10 and beyond is where the problem lies. Add to this the increased costs of goods and services and fewer jobs as a result of increased business taxes and McCain becomes the lesser of two evils (on taxes, anyway).

Are you paying attention?

Mr. Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Fear is what McCain and Palin are basing their campaign on.

Are you not paying attention? The Democrat campaign this time and with John Kerry was all about scaring people about the economy. In fact economic fear was exactly what FDR was talking about in that speech.

DEMS Bitter and Gullible

Gertz, I concur with the poster the other day...you are awfully bitter. I'm truly amazed that you think that the BO campaign has been prim and proper...also, I too am Joe the Plumber (but I make a few dollars more than Peterc). Since Peterc is self-employed, he at least will be able to raise his fees and/or work longer and harder to make up for the impending tax increases he'll realize (contrary to his thinking) IF BO wins. Like they say, the DEMs have never seen a tax they didn't like. Where is the money going to come from to deliver any of BO's promises and "drunken sailor" spending approach? BO says we should be spending the $10B per month here (on his spread the wealth programs) instead of fighting terrorism in Iraq...if you bring the troops home tomorrow, you're still gonna be paying for them. Lastly, why does the DEM-controlled congress have the worst report card of all time (even lower than your much-hated "W")? I repeat, be careful what you ask for when you vote.

Why is it?

That democrats that are suppose to be liberal and all inclusive towards everyone, bash McCain and anyone that supports him? With all of the money that Obama has spent on his campain, you would think that he would have a huge margin over McCain, but he doesn't. That everytime a subject comes up where Obama has his (or Biden) comments called into question, the democrats say that it was taken out of context or that isn't what they meant... At the begining of the democratic campain when Clinton, Biden and the rest were still trying to be the democratic choice to run for president, his own party said that he wasn't ready to be president, had no experience, voted 'present'; what has changed since then that they are shouting his praises? As far as I can tell, Nothing!
Let's just get it overwith! Vote with your brain, not with your heart.

Gertz, I had much more respect for you...

when you stuck to your guns and didn't fudge the truth. you never considered McCain. Every post during this election cycle you've been a staunch Obama Supporter. Which, as I said before, I had respect for you because you stuck to your beliefs. Now you want us to believe that you actually considered McCain? Please, stick to your guns and be true to yourself. You'll get much more respect that way...

I'm a Joe as well

Although I am smart enough to figure out that, that furniture is not really going out of business again.

I am smart enough to see that Stores that advertise E-1 and up financing are probably not a good idea.

I was smart enough to not get an interest only mortgage on a house that I could not afford.

Therefore I can usually see through the marketing that fools the usual Joe and I can see through the marketing that is Obama and I am voting for McCain.

who's rich?

Are these actual middle class people not seeing that they are NOT going to benefit from those wealthy snobs who pander our votes so they can get the power to give themselves tax exemptions!?
We may not be rich in $ but we do have brains.
I would not miss voting Tuesday and hope all those working people can get to the polls to do the right thing.

I am voting for Obama

So I can quit my job, go on welfare, get free medical, get a tax refund for taxes I never paid, and live the good life for once. All that will happen right? I mean he promised, right?

Undecided Voters

Undecided voters need to just stay home or stay at work tomorrow. They could not decide what to eat for lunch if they had to.

I was unable to vote

I hope this is not a sign of things to come. I was unable to vote in this fun poll. I have already voted for Obama in the real election. The choice between Obama who wants to be our Leader and McCain who wants to be a Maverick (non-leader) is very easy.

NPD

Your assumption about undecided voters is wrong. We tend to be more prudent and judicial in our decision making. You should be thankful some people take the time to forsee as many intended and unintended consequences as possible - what's your excuse?

McCain

Though it may be too late, I was happy to see ads this weekend detailing how Obama's defense cuts will savage the local economy.

Unemployment isn't change we need.

Response to NPD

NPD: I'm undecided. Lunch is figured out and I am just about decided on who to give my vote but I have to admit, it's hard. Why? I realize that MY vote counts and its hard to give it to men (and/or women) who lie, feed propaganda, so forth; in short, act like some high school snotty yuppie running for an SCA office. Neither candidate fits the requirements for what America NEEDS and WANTS. However, they each have shortfalls, drastic depending on how one looks at each descrepancy.

I would love for politicans to not worry about the next guy but be focused on the politics, problems, examples of solutions, and such. To keep the Pilot from editing me, i'll summarize my stance as such: Neither candidate, by way of their "credentials," character, et cetera are qualified to be the best of what America needs from them. I hope to God that either man and/or the woman proves me wrong. In the meantime, I look forward to lunch today and tomorrow.

Enough "Joe the Plumber"

This fixation with "Joe the Plumber" is totally over the top. This guy is somehow touted as being an average working man. Excuse me but he isn't even a licensed plumber. Where I come from that makes him "Joe the Jackleg". This is another lame McCain ploy touting someone once again that he hasn't vetted. Just like his lame running mate. This guy is an unlicenced tax evader not some kind of folk hero. Give me a break.

McCain

I'm a retired naval officer and so is McCain...the choice is easy...(after all I'm just using the same reasoning that a lot of Obamites are using)...but I do believe that McCain will be more apt to take care of me than someone with ZERO military experience...just a fact of life.

Well, 40% of the people

Well, 40% of the people think a socialist state is ok. 53% of the people will probaly be disappointed.

McCain will prevail in Hammpton Roads

Never in the last 100 years has someone so completely inexperienced and so far to the left been so close to becoming our president. It is beyond imagination that we've come to this.

Dumb question

For an "unscientific sampling."

Careful

As in the words of Collin Powell, "Be Careful of what you wish for because you may get it!" Then you have to live with it. "Choose carefully, Grasshopper".

Election Eve

Well, it's finally here. Tomorrow we go to the polls and bring an end to 17 months of TV ads,signs, mudslinging and anything else connected with the election. This one will be historic, no matter who wins. I really can't see why people have problems making up their mind. I have read Obama's books and until then I thought he was the man for the job, but, in my opinion, he is not the one I want with his finger on the button. His inexperience shows through like a lighthouse beacon light. Clearly, if you honestly compare McCain and Obama, putting race aside, McCain is better qualified, has military service, (Obama none) has commanded people as a captain in the Navy. I believe he would be the better choice as a Commander-in-Chief of our Military,plus he puts the country first, which is the bottom line. This vote is very important, so forget about race, and think about who is truly better qualified. Don't vote race, vote what is best for our country.

wow

My posts are only up to 7 hours wait time so far...

I don't believe here are undecided voters

At this late date, I don't believe there are still undecided voters. I blieeve there are older people who don't want to say who they will be voting for, but I do feel everyone at this popint has made up their mind, but just not saying.

Obama '08

McCain has plans to lower

McCain has plans to lower taxes for big business, where do you suppose he will then raise taxes? Lower taxes so big business can take more jobs overseas. How does that help the econmy? Trickle down economics no longer work, yet some people don't get it.

I'm John the lawn guy and I

I'm John the lawn guy and I will not vote for someone who plans to "spread the wealth around" which actually means to take the money that i've earned through sweat and labor and give it to someone who hasn't earned it.

As we come to the end..or beginning...

This posting and blogging stuff has been quite an experience. I've learned a lot, and I've seen an amazing transformation in Gertz, who has recently started making logical posts devoid of her usual name-calling. Nice going, Gertz; I look forward to reading your views post election!

Other’s ideas are much easier to consider when the owner isn't being a bully. I'm amazed at how vehemently some people tried to dehumanize those with whom they disagree. I can see how easily peace loving people can be transformed into hateful defenders of their ideals; willing to literally beat their fellow man into submission, or exterminate them all together. Whatever the outcome of tomorrow's election, I hope we, as a Nation, will react civilly, and respect our neighbor's right to choose.

BZ to the poor Pilot staffer/s who had to read all this stuff. I'm sure you weren't paid enough!

President Barack Obama!

It's been an amazingly long election season and we're finally at the end. As a Navy Veteran, I once had great respect for McCain. Unfortunately, he will have to thank Bush for putting him through one of the worst times to be a Republican.

After 8 years of the GOP controlling our government. After watching the GOP have to explain their hypocrisy, lies, corruption, outing CIA agents, approving torture, ruining America's reputation, endless unemployment, disastrous results after Katrina, sending our troops unequipped for a war in Iraq, which was a lie, failed banks, massive foreclosures...

There is no way, no how the GOP will ever get my vote.

Obama/Biden!

We are all very likely

We are all very likely enjoying the end of our free, capitalist democracy that our founding fathers envisioned. I truly hope that the more moderate democrats in congress will not allow our country to slide into a full socialist state and will be wise enough to protect our freedoms. America has always been an example of government by the people, of freedom from oppressive government control of our lives and of opportunity (not handouts) for all. A place where hard work and ingenuity were rewarded and if you worked hard and played by the rules you could make a great life for you and your family. I am fearful this will all come to an end with President Obama and that as he taxes businesses out of existence, energy, banks and healthcare are nationalized and we all become dependent on the govt for everything, the American dream will no longer exist for anyone. I pray that I these fears will be unfounded and the America I love will survive.

Basic economics

Vienna_Jack, it is obvious the "fish" story was just too much for you to comprehend. Let us put it in the simplest of terms thereby giving you a better chance to understand how economics in this country works. First of all, it's about jobs! That is the simple part. Now comes the part that you have a hard time understanding. When taxes go up, jobs are lost and the real truth is that when the pink slips are handed out, they don't care if you are Democrat or Republican; we will all feel the same pain. Now assuming you are laid off, Obama's plan will give you a check that is probably many times smaller than the check you received while employed. That’s where the "pain" part comes in. John McCain, on the other hand, wants to keep taxes low so that you won't loose your job in the first place. Now that you understand this principle, let me explain another economic principle; its called "trickle down economics." It works like this. Federal and state governments keeps taxes low, businesses are booming and excess capital begins to build. They need to grow so they hire you. In most cases, you receive a pay check and a list of benefits – health care, sick leave and vacation.

the better of our country and our troops

I find it quite interesting that Obama wants to "spread the wealth around." Spoken from his own mouth, why is his aunt still living in section 8 housing then? Unfortunately, to me, Obama wants to spread tax payers wealth around and not his own. I am unwilling to vote for someone who wants taxpayers like myself, who make just enough to live comfortably, to pay for people who dont want to work and dont pay taxes (just ten times worse than we have so far). Because when it really comes down to it..this is what is going to happen. I respect everyones opinion and have even enjoyed listening to the different views of each person I have spoken to, about who and why they are voting for either candidate. I myself am voting for McCain. Whoever may win this election, I hope it will be for the better of our country and our troops.

Did You Know

The last person that rose to power this fast was Hitler. HMMM!
McCain for us

McCain was born in Panama,

McCain was born in Panama, not a US state or territory. Try again.

birth certificate?

Do you realize how silly you sound? Check your facts before making a fool of yourself.
Obama was born in Hawaii
His (white) grandfather served in WWII
His (white) grandmother was a Rosie riveter
He got into Harvard on merit not money
Jefferson insisted that we have an educated populace to wisely choose our leaders--educated with facts or the ability to find out the facts
Find out before spouting off

How to make it through the end of the election

Here's a great political satire website to help us through the last few hours of this interminable presidential race: http://fleetingmatters.wordpress.com/

to armyvet concerning medical records

Did you realize that Obama is the first Presidential candidate in a very long time not to release his medical records?

He only released a one page letter from a doctor that he had not even seen in over a year. Are you slightly curious? No?

Get Off the Patriotism Thing

Where do we get this idea that someone is fit to be president because they served in the military? If one has to serve in the military to be patriotic, then ninety percent of the population is unpatriotic.

Hey Vienna Jack...

The top 1% pay 65+% of all the individual income taxes. and this is fair because they can afford it? I'm not in the 1% yet but I aspire to be. I've gone from making 22 thousand a year, living in a less the good house with the heat turned off because I had to pay the car payment and buy food and pay for the mortgage to making 80+ thousand a year in the span of less then ten years. I worked my butt off. I went from a phone operator and worked through school to pay the bills and still have a student loan but I've clawed my way out of poverty to get to the point I'm at. AND I'VE NEVER THOUGHT IT FAIR that just because someone can afford it they should pay more as a percentage of income in taxes. When I was making 22 grand a year I paid nearly nothing. I DIDN'T WANT THE HAND OUT from earned income credit because I paid so little in taxes to begin with. And with each step I've made on the rung up I keep getting hit with higher tax rates. And this is why I won't vote for Obama. Because what is truely UNFAIR is paying someone for nothing...

born in the USA

Too funny, of course Obama was born in the United States of America, specifically Hawaii; you can even find a copy of his birth certificate on the internet.

The funny thing is that John McCain wasn’t, he was born in Panama. Actually it was a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone which just so happens to be sovereign US soil that entitles McCain as a “Natural Born Citizen”.

At least Obama can say he was born “IN” the USA.

Get your facts straight.

Just a thought

Unfortunately, some people are gonna hate themselves right out onto the street.

There's really no such thing as undecided, unless you've been under a rock for the last year.

It does come down to race. If you don't want to vote for Obama because he's black, then jees, say so. Heck, if he was a white man with the same ideas, I'd still be on the "Bama" wagon. I gave Bush my vote twice and I kinda regret it. And I'm an A/A registered Republican female who is Navy veteran.

At least some of us will respect you for being honest instead of hiding behind a "I dunno!"

Maybe the GOP will pull their heads out of their tails and start focusing on qualified candidates that look like America and not as Newt Gingrich put it, "me."

Get the Facts on Obama's Birth

The 14th Amendment states "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." Barack Obama. Jr. was born in Hawaii, not Kenya. Barack's father (who is also Barack Obama, Sr.) was born in Kenya. Please check your facts before posting. If you want to question birth, John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, Panama. Might he be considered Panamanian given his place of birth? Barack, Jr. was legitimately born in an actual U.S. state. Again, check the facts folks.

You go consume & OBEY republicrats bhah...

I will not participate by pretending to take a 'side' in this false choice display of pre-selected elite political interests creating world conflicts for profits, destroying the economy and further growing reckless government control.

if i recall correctly....

the courts had to consider mccain's eligibility too. he was born in the panama canal zone. not saying that a child born to military parents serving out of country should ever be precluded from running for office, but it WAS an issue for a few weeks or so until the law was interpreted in a manner that mccain remained eligible.

Change v. More of the Same

Before you vote, ask yourself whether you want change or more of the same. John McCain voted with George Bush 90% of the time. He wants to continue George Bush's tax policies, George Bush's economic policies, and George Bush's foreign policies. He was endorsed by Dick Cheney. He represents more of the same failed policies that we've had for the last eight years and that got us into the mess we're in now.

Obama = Change. McCain = More of the Same.

Today, the old USA moves one

Today, the old USA moves one giant leap toward becoming a socialist state.

Obama will pay my mortgage and put gas in my tank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

For a few

You mean until the media had the constitution explained to them?

To Miss Dee

I'm retired Navy and I can't possibly imagine anyone who has served in the military backing a candidate with ZERO military experience...you have become a "turncoat" in my eyes.

BTW

"amyvet"

Go read CNN.com

Palin's Physician released information that she is in excellent health, and provided detailed medical information.

Go to the bottom of the article: Obama has NEVER released his medical records.....only a "letter" from his campaign office stating that he is in good health?

You need to do your homework!

On that note......good luck to everyone voting today! Stay dry.....

Obama - A US Citizen

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Click the link to see Obama's birth certificate. I can't believe that there is all this info on the web but people continue to be blind and gullible. Not sure who I am going to vote for but at least I check out all the dumb rumors.

Not a zero sum game

McCain has plans to lower taxes for big business, where do you suppose he will then raise taxes? Lower taxes so big business can take more jobs overseas. How does that help the econmy?

First, the rhetoric and not fact. It's also not a zero sum game. If you increase business taxes, they generally come out of the payroll because that's an accessible cash source as most other assets are not easily turned to cash. That means people get fired to cover the taxes. If it gets worse, then they have to start selling assets by closing stores and whatnot and even more people lose their jobs.

We had to learn this lesson with Carter but I guess the new generation needs to learn it again. They'll figure it out when unemployment breaks 8% and be smarter voters in two years.

Undecided?

Are these extraterrestrials?

ChristopherC/Rob Maz

Christopher- Obama would be way ahead in the polls (mid teens) if it werent for the racist points (up to 6 points are being swayed simply on whites not voting for Obama because hes not white). Dont hand me the fact that blacks are voting for Obama because hes black, because they would vote in the same percentages for ANY Democrat.

Rob Maz- You have no clue how the welfare system works, nor do you have any clue the type of life welfare "provides". True, it does provide a better life in most cases then minimum wage (assuming you qualify for any welfare assistance/and or you havent already used up your lifetime benefits), or many low skilled jobs, but thats only because welfare benefits are actually indexed to things like the poverty level, while minimum wage is an arbitrary joke that is less then half of living wage in almost every locale in the country. The problem isnt welfare, the problem is greed at every single level of the business model, and it is all passed down to the wage earner at the bottom in the form of pittance wages.

Wow

you guys get vicious when you are losing. Why so angry? You had 8 years to make things "right"! It has been a total complete EPIC fialure. Even your man Colin Powell thinks so. So here it is, the day you lose control of something you never really had under control to begin with and yet you are angry with us. The Republican party has been hijacked by the hypocritical "moral" majority (of which they are neither) who in turn became drunk with power and lost their minds. Yet you are angry with patriotic americans who go and do their civic duty, just not they way you would. You call us names (typical republican behavior)and throw a fit yet never accept your share of the responsibility either. Hmmmmmm.... dont worry it is only 8 years. Then we will see if you learned your lesson.

go obama!!!!!!!!

Some people are so blind, spread the wealth does not mean take OUR money and just hand it out. Besides under McCain OUR money goes to make sure oil and other big companies get tax breaks!?!? So how does that make McCain a better choice? If your company makes over $250,000.00 you will have a higher tax, but by 2%. I wouldn’t mind that, and I don’t see how that is a problem!!! Obama is looking out for the middle class, hard working people like me and many others! So stop with the twist that spread the wealth means give to the ones who don’t work, that’s not true! Besides big companies getting OUR money, we are spending billions in Iraq! Something McCain has no problem with!

For Rob Maz

I posted yesterday and it still isn't online. It is the wonderful in the tank for Obama VP

Patriots ALL

I did my heart good to drive to work today and see long lines of Patriots standing patiently in the rain waiting to vote. (I voted a week ago) Who every wins, this election has done alot to lift all Americans. In the past it has been embarrasing to see long lines of voters in Iraq, India, etc while in our country often only 30-40 percent vote. It is wonderful to see Americans willing to suffer some discomfort to perform the most important duty of a Patriot...Voting. I wonder if we can pass 90% voting this year?
Keep dry all you Patriots!

Philly - city of intolerant love

I guess it's ok if the dems do this but not the repubs.

http://townhall.com/blog/g/cf47766b-5a6d-44ab-95e7-ce60631bcadc

Hey Coolguy81

Do you have any experience with welfare? As a small business owner and a person who used to have my business in Welfare State New York, I have alot of experience. I would have people come in for a job, be offered a few dollars more an hour than they would be getting on welfare, and be told that they would rather not work and collect less money, which they did. I had employees that wouldn't state who the father of their child was, so that they could collect welfare as well. It is a terrible system that will only get worse if Obama becomes president. I am all out for subsidized financial support, I don't like the term welfare, for those that work or do the best that they can, and still need help. I have no sympathy for free-loaders, which also sounds like Obama's illegal aunt who was living in free public housing in MA. He doesn't have a clue and we will all be doomed, especially small business' like myself, who would love to be rich, but are happy living the middle class life while supporting at least 20 other families in the area that can do the same.

Cool Guy

I agree with you, many blacks would be voting democrat regardless of the candidate. The fact that they are VOTING at all is because the candidate IS black. And the white democrats that don't vote for Obama because of his color is not good too.

But when a recent group provided McCain's policies and ideas to a group of Obama supporters (who happened to be black), and they agreed that these policies were good to them - what does that tell you about the voters?

Uneducated voters ON BOTH SIDES should be ashamed. Voters that are in favor of wealth redistribution, bigger government, and more handouts SHOULD vote democrat. Voters that want more responsible government, balance in government, and (ESPECIALLY for THIS REGION) a STRONG MILITARY - PLEASE vote McCain and Drake.

If your military/government position goes away, and you voted Obama & Nye, BLAME YOURSELF!

A vote for Obama ...

... is a vote for continued wefare, handouts, laziness, high crime, and everything else that stands against America and her founding fathers.

@my_view

Wow, way to repeat everything your hear on TV. McCain gives out money to oil companies? Give me a break. The profit margin for Exxon in 2007 was 11.3%. The average profit margin of S&P 500 companies is 12%. Oil is a capital intensive business, that's why these companies are big. American oil companies actually compete with hostile foreign governments who natioanlize their oil production like Russia and Venezuela. It places our entire country's energy infrastructure at risk when we place make it more difficult for Exxon to operate. If people read a little bit, they'd understand this, but ignorance is easier, I suppose. Increasing corporate taxes in the face of a recession (Obama's plan) is a recipe for economic disaster. If we make the US less friendly to corporations, they will simply move their operations overseas. Tax breaks won't do a lot of good when you're out of a job. It's too bad people aren't required to take a test to register as voters...

VOTE OBAMA 08'

Its Time for Change.. Republicans had their chance to run this country into the ground and they have been very successful doing so.. OBAMA a new voice a new direction a reachable GOAL... He is for the people not BIG business.. Not the Oil Companies.. LET'S GO OBAMA 08'!!!! We need to focus on our ECONOMY and our Education.. Americans must VOTE so we can save our jobs here in this country and not have them outsourced to other nations.

McCain is the SAME and he is Very OLD and out of touch. what nation does not need health care? Palin is GREEN in every WAY, but she sure knows how to abuse her power she's an expert at that!!!!

@coolguy

Have you ever been into a public housing project? If so, what did you think of the $80,000 cars parked in the lot all day and the flat screen TV's in the apartments? I've been in them b4 and it pisses me off everyday when I am driving home from a 10 hr work day in my POS car to watch my old tube TV that will be unusable in a few months. The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that I pay my own way. I guess not everyone has personal pride or is compelled to contribute something to the greater good though.

@jazzmindj

And just where do you think jobs come from if not big business??? An Obama administration will more readily send jobs overseas. Increase corporate taxes and just see what happens. Actually, we don't need to do that experiment, because that is exactly what has always happened in the past. Please get some facts rather than rhetoric.

Some facts to consider...

Funny how people want to talk about how Obama isn't really for change and how he shouldn't run the country because he hasn't been in the military (how stupid is that!!). The truth remains that Obama is 900000% a better choice than McCain is. Hmmm. John McCain voted OVER 90% OF THE TIME WITH OUR SMART GUY OF A PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH (and we see how well that turned out)!!! Yeah and plus he has a junkie of a wife (who stole pain pills from her own non profit organization and used her employees' names to fill the prescriptions...nice one!). He's all about family first yet he had an affair with Cindy when he was married to his first wife (who by the way was disabled because of a car accident...yeah). Oh yeah...the guy doesn't even know how many houses he owns!! For pete's sake...he was involved in the Keating 5 fiasco (for those who have no idea what I'm talking about...head on over to Google and have fun with that one!!). Please. And don't get me started about that airhead of a VP choice he has. I have to admit that with the VP Debate she came prepared and ready but when she TRIED to sound TOO SMART she hung herself.

It is time for a change. McCain has not once distanced himself

Beachdogs

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Have you even researched Obamas platform? Obama is in favor of tax breaks for companies that create jobs IN America. McCain has no such platform. Obama at least wants to redo the trade agreements to make them more balanced, McCain wants them as they are. Free Trade agreements are largely what is responsible for illegals originating from Mexico, as well as US companies jumping over seas. A vote for McCain is a vote for big business. Continued corporate welfare, continued support of free trade agreements that dont work for America, and a continued shrinking of the lower working classes, which erodes consumer spending.

Long lines in Portsmouth's ParkView school

Hubby went to polls at 6am in our inner city neighborhood. Incredible line of over 200+ standing in the pouring rain. He had to leave to go to work before casting a vote. Daughter went later...waited 1.5 hrs to vote...was number 365 by 0830.

There has never been lines like this here....where did these voters come from? More people voting than any election I have ever seen.

That's the bad part

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Have you even researched Obamas platform? Obama is in favor of tax breaks for companies that create jobs IN America. McCain has no such platform. Obama at least wants to redo the trade agreements to make them more balanced,

Yea, that's called protectionism and is directly responsible for the worst economic times in US history. What you end up with is a trade war, high inflation, and high unemployment.

is coolguys talking or is that my tv again?

Watching political adds on television does not count as research.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_trade_trickery.html

Ilikesnacks

You cannot compare historic protectionism to the situation the US is in now. The US is the worlds consumer, it has the power to strong arm every other nation in to EXACTLY what they want them to do. Who is China going to sell to if not the US? Taiwan? Mexico? The Phillipines? Indonesia? These countries would watch their economies fall by 50% or more. This is not your grandads or great grandads US economy.

House and Senate

Funny, I thought the house and the senate made the laws. By the way some people talk, the president has complete control of making laws in our country. The power some people give the president. Oh yeah and by the way, what is the majority of the house and the senate who make the laws of the land hmmm Democrat. The president doesn't make the laws he only has the power of veto and is commander and chief of the military.

beachdogs

What is this link supposed to be? It has NOTHING to do with Obamas platform, nor John McCains, it just a stupid fact checking link. I could care less what either candidate said in a debate about the other, or what they printed on some stupid fliers that fill my mailbox up every day. I research the candidates direct positions on issues, which is called a PLATFORM. Clearly, you get your information from TV and fliers, and I feel bad for you. Too bad the uninformed vote counts on this day as well.

Obama Is One Of The Great Orators Of Our Time

Even better than that he has delivered a message with actual ideas and real substance. His appeal is to our better human instincts and sound sense of judgment as to what we deem is better for our future. He is not appealing to our fears and prejudices.

In Sunday's Pilot I noticed that the property forclosures were two or three times the space of the help wanted section. John please be serious
"The Fundamentals Of Our Economy" are not sound.

The Bad News Is
Things Are Not Good
The Good News Is
Help Is On The Way.

What?

You cannot compare historic protectionism to the situation the US is in now. The US is the worlds consumer, it has the power to strong arm every other nation in to EXACTLY what they want them to do

That makes zero sense. It's absolutely identical to historic situations. Basically any type of recession happens, a bunch of power hungry politicians pop up with all these promises, it sounds good to people that don't know economics, they get elected, and the recessions is made far worse than it should have been. It's not just a pattern in the US either.

Obama should win by a landslide ....

... because all of us Republicans have to be at work, and waiting in 2-3 hour lines might be cause for dismissal! That's OK though, as long as our long hours and hard work put rain coats on Obama supporters, we should be proud .... I guess?

coolguy..bereft of logic...

You said: "Obama is in favor of tax breaks for companies that create jobs IN America". The link that I provided presents facts that show that Obama's claims are a misrepresentation of reality. McCain's votes against ammendments to those laws have no bearing on whether a company's operations remain in the US. Furthermore, your assertion that lower corporate taxes somehow result in lower consumer spending is just plain wrong. "Continued corporate welfare, continued support of free trade agreements that dont work for America, and a continued shrinking of the lower working classes, which erodes consumer spending." If our government creates an environment that is not friendly to big business, salaries WILL go down, jobs WILL be lost, and economic activity currently located here WILL move overseas. This is simple economics. Obama knows this to be true, but he is playing the "Robin Hood" character so well that he has everyone (including you) fooled.

beachdogs

Beachdogs- I am reminded of McCain and all the facts about him and his policies each time I dig into my purse... Why is it that our US companies are laying people off and outsourcing our jobs and relocating to other countries... why are these oil companies reporting record gains? I don't need to watch the news to know that the system is messed up. I look at the competition for diminishing jobs, or the amount of children with no health care. It's people like you who see what you want. I see CHANGE!!!!! I see OBAMA... I SEE HUMANITY!!!! BIG business does not have to take million dollar vacations at the expense of its community or charge $4 for a gallon of gas! BIG business can take some responsibility and support the community who allows them to exist!!!! But I guess you have it all figured out... I hope you VOTED... I know I DID!!! OBAMA 08'

@ the truth hurts

Obama is a great orator, but that doesn't make him the right man for the job. There is actually very little substance to Obama's speeches when you consider that it is basically impossible to make his promises work out mathematically. He is, in fact, preying directly on people's fears and prejudices. His campaign has played up "how bad" things are in America from day one, when the fact remains that this is still the number one country in the world, hands down. We have still not officially entered a recession. That may yet come to pass, but the fact is, we are not in one yet. Also, the current financial crisis is, in large part, due to the coersion of lenders by liberal politicians to make loans to unqualified borrowers. Maybe if Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton hadn't gotten the government so involved in private lending, we wouldn't be in this mess.

you honestly don't know?

" Why is it that our US companies are laying people off and outsourcing our jobs and relocating to other countries..." Maybe because spoiled unionized Americans demand stupidly high wages for a job a trained monkey can do? A job that will only pay 2-3$ an hour over there costs around 20-50$ an hour here. You seriously can't figure this out?

one more thing, coolguy...

When a candidate repeatedly makes a certain claim he is forming a position on an issue.

In case you didn't know, the definition of PLATFORM: A body of principles on which a person or group takes a stand in appealing to the public.

So guess what, erroneous claims such as "McCain gives tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas" are indicative of a candidate's platform. If you can't understand the connection between "what a candidate says" and their "platform", then you have very little hope of understanding the broader implications of these proposed policies.

beachdogs

You may not be in a recession but it sure seems like the rest of the country is in one. If someone comes along and is proposing REAL change then YES they definitely will have my VOTE.. The lack of leadership that we have had for the last 8 years has done nothing but make this country broken, BROKE, and disliked. We have more enemies, and weaker economy and FAR less jobs. Let's try building our communities and creating jobs within them. Lets try providing health care for the very people who keep this country going.

change?!? don't be so naive...

The change that you think you see is nothing more than an illusion. The price of gas has nothing to do with oil companies making record profits. Statments like that just show your ignorance of economics. Oil is a global market. American oil companies compete with oil companies around the world to sell gasoline around the world. The price was so high because demand was high. Have you heard about the growth in India and China? The relationship of supply and demand is the most basic economic truth. The only reason the price has come down is because of slowing demand due to fear of recession. Furthermore, if the community that "big business" resides in becomes hostile, then "big business" will simply leave town. Then where will we be? (I'm thinking of a creek, a canoe, and no paddle) The socialist policies proposed by the Obama campaign will do far more harm to the average citizen than anything that is currently in place. And you better believe that I voted.

Georges

Georges.. Are you gonna pack it up and move over seas to make $2-$3 an hour and UN-spoil yourself.. Are you willing to live in a hut and put your kids to work at the age of 8? I don't see the reflection of cheap labor or material being handed down to the consumer here in the US. I do see big business taking million dollar VACATIONS at the expense of the CONSUMER. They receive MILLION dollar bonuses after laying off 5,000 or more employees. who is actually being spoiled?

MissMichelle85

Shame on you for only reading/seeing and believing the negative on McCain, and not doing research on your candidate of choice. Both candidates have issues they are not (or should not) be proud of, and while some of the issues are directly relevent to chararacter, it still should not be the deciding issue - Look at Bill Clinton - he really should have been impeached if we were only looking at character. Neither wife is running for office, so you really should not include them either. What you should have been looking at is how each of theses candidates will affect your and the nations welfare in the next 4 years. And by the way, McCain voted with his party 90% of the time, not with the president as the president does not vote in the house or senate, but only has veto power. And if you use the same logic, Obama voted with his party 97% of the time - meaning McCain has a greater history of "reaching across the table". Before people spout off on the rhetoric presented before us by the media, you really should do some valid research - Googling one thing you hear on radio or TV is not enough. God help us all with this election - If Obama wins, we are in great danger of loosing our

Ilikesnacks

No, it is NOT identical. In the past, when the US has used protectionist tactics, it hurt the US, because the US was dependent on other countries buying our goods, so other countries counter reactions hurt. If you havent been paying attention the trade deficit is trillions of dollars. We are the primary export destination of 75% of the countries on the globe, while they are not destinations for the few goods we still make. China, Indonesia, Mexico, and the rest would be forced to eat whatever policies we handed them until they could build the internal consumer demand to buy their own goods.

beachdogs-1

A candidates negative attacks are not his platform, rather his attempts at finding holes in the opponents platform. You really have no concept of what a platform is do you? A platform is made up of what a particuliar candidate is HIMSELF going to try to do for the people. It does not consist of claims he makes against opponents. Obamas positions on the issues are CLEARLY posted on his website and so are McCains. That is all I need to know right there. I do not need to read the fluff in my mail box from both sides, or the negative ads on TV, infact, I dont even have cable.

jazmindj

No I don't have to move anywhere because thanks to all those big business I will forever have a job, will never have to worry one little bit about recession, losing my job, my kids college, or NOT taking my vacation. Because I am an auditor, and thanks to those wonderful corrupt executives and the screaming of people like yourself, I must by law audit all these companies! So I guess I should thank you all for keeping me employed. But then again, I never expected to be a trained monkey and earn 50$ an hour either... unlike all the industry employees. And why should you get a break on costs just because labor is cheaper elsewhere? Profits are profits, if you owned a corp, you'd do it too.

Remind me not to hire you

Because I am an auditor, and thanks to those wonderful corrupt executives and the screaming of people like yourself, I must by law audit all these companies!

Anyone with such a strong prejudice would make an incompetent auditor.

Sorry

No, it is NOT identical. In the past, when the US has used protectionist tactics, it hurt the US, because the US was dependent on other countries buying our goods, so other countries counter reactions hurt.

Sorry, you're just plain wrong. Unless all the economist and financial analysts in the world are a bunch of idiots and only you know the truth. I kind of doubt that. I guess it does fall right line as part of the pattern is also the denial of historic precedent.

Beachdogs..

The Pilot never posts my rebuttals. Maybe this time ?

We can agree to disagree.

Time will bear out the fact that we are now and have been in a recession.
Most of us feel like Biff after a dump truck encounter in the movie "Back To The Future".

The rest of your post is a Rush Limbaugh transcript...No reply deserved

Best of luck tonight.

Georges

NEGATIVE.. I take responsibility for the community and the people who helped me get to where I am... Its people with out a conscious that have driven our country into the ground.. Companies who are all about profit are the ones who are causing this economy to fail. I am a business Owner and I do worry about my Children and their College education. Why should you pay 150k for education when it should be free? After all we need to educate our people to remain a world power. I have a responsibility to my customers for they are the ones who have kept me in business for the last 4 years. I don't get off on enjoying wealth at some poor sap's expense..

ILIKESNACKS

"Anyone with such a strong prejudice would make an incompetent auditor."

From the statement I can honestly say you are not an auditor, and have no clue to the reality of the problem. Want a clue? If you live in a housing association, get their yearly audit (you are entitled to a full copy) and see how much $$$ is missing, or who wrote $30,000 in checks to themselves last year. By law they have to have one too, but 99% of people who live there don't know that, and the board sure doesn't want you to know it either... I will almost guarantee it.

coolguys just keep fooling yourself

Obama's website says: "End tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas." But I guess that's not part of his platform?

That is really disturbing that you consider yourself "informed" yet get all of your information from a single source. Even more disturbing is that the source is a politician's website. OMG.

Beachdogs

Currently, MANY companies that export jobs are receiving tax breaks.

What does that have to do with McCain? Part of Obamas plaform is not "McCain will give tax cuts to companies that outsource". His platform is "I will end current tax cuts". Accusing McCain of trying to give tax cuts to companies that outsource is pretty much just part of him trying to get elected.

Enough of beachdogs already

Isn't there are rule against overposting? Geesh!! And Dave the Bud, what makes you think that only Repubs had to get to work today? Amazing how some of you think. I hope you aren't teaching your kids (or anyone else's for that matter) the same garbage. Well, I'll have you to know that a lot of Dems were in those lines too, AND then on their way to WORK - me and my physician husband and engineer friends included just to name a few. Are you shocked? See, we're not all on public assistance. We actually have advanced college degrees, own businesses, and homes --just like Repubs. Wow, learn something new every day, don't you? Glad I could school you.

jazmindj

I have no idea how to respond to that statement. So I guess what you are saying is that you are in business to not make any money at all and are a non-profit? Because if you are in business, have customers, and charge for services/goods, then you are trying to make a profit. And on that note, I am off for the rest of the day. Good day to you.

@ the truth hurts

My guess is also that we are in a recession, but it still beats what's going on in "soft socialist" countries like the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/06/09/heckley109.xml

I like the Biff analogy, I got a chuckle when I recalled that scene.

The stuff about the oil companies and corporate taxes is not Rush L. material, it is a plain and simple economic reality. The fact that we may be in a recession has me even more worried about "robin hood" policies that are unfriendly to business growth.

Ilikesnacks

Please give me a source that not only shows that every, or even an overwhelming majority of financial analysts and economists agree with your assertion, and also I need a logical explanation from them on WHY it wouldnt work.

As a former financial analyst myself with a degree in Finance and plenty of course work in economics, Ill be the first to line up on the side that states that it could, and would work in the current US economic model, and should be pursued with haste.

Historical precedent is ONLY precedent if the contributing data and factors remain the same. You change the subject when you change the data. In this case, you are going from a POSITIVE trade balance, to an unbelievably huge NEGATIVE trade balance. That changes the total ball game. Im not quite sure where you are getting lost on that.

Ipila

I am College educated. I graduated from JMU in 1979. I worked my way through college with 3 jobs, grants and student loans which took 10 years to pay off, but it's done. I also have worked everyday since I was 14.5 years old. I, unlike you, am not looking for handouts - and the part that was missing from my original post, you are already proving - if Obama wins, we will loose democracy as our forefathers had outlined it, if McCain wins, we will suffer the backlash of being accused racist. I will quit my job and go on welfare before I "share the wealth" with someone such as yourself.

geez, i guess i should connect the dots...

Come on coolguys, really. Must it be spelled out for you? The link I gave earlier shows that Obama's claims relative to the tax incentives for companies that move jobs overseas is irrelevent at best. This message board doesn't support me drawing a flow chart for you. If you are unable to follow a stream of logic, then I have nothing else for you.

And Ivy22, if you don't want to read my posts then don't. Half of them have been in an effort to help coolguys with his reasoning issues anyhow. That's great that you and your friends went to vote. If that is the only information that you can provide, maybe you are the one who should just keep quiet.

Beachdogs

How many tax breaks you think Walmart gets in a given year? Over 75% of the goods on Walmarts shelves are imported from China. How many tax cuts do you think Ford gets? A huge number of their cars are now made or mostly made in Mexico and Canada? How bout Microsoft? IBM? Intel? Nike? Please stop playing naive. Your link proves nothing other then it wasnt exactly applicable to that one company, in the light, that Obama portrayed it in. Almost every company on the US shores practices farming out jobs or putting tremendous pressure on suppliers to farm out jobs. This ranges from call centers in India, to sweatshops in Peru. Guess what, almost every single one of them are receiving some form of corporate welfare as well, primarily in the form of heavy tax breaks, and to a lessor extent, subsidized employee costs. There have been hundreds of books written about the subject. Please open your eyes and stop towing the line.

Windsor Woods Elementary

I waited almost 2 hours for 2 minutes worth of vote time. The problem was the way people were being checked in by last name. I happen to have a last name that starts with G and this was the longest line. Persons with the last name A- E or S - Z were pulled from the end of the line, escorted to the front and allowed through. So those people were in and out within minutes.
I am proud to have the opportunity to vote, however this system needs to be re-addressed. Knowing that the voter trun out would be high, perhaps the system could have been processed more efficiently.

Indian Lakes Elementary

The lines weren't bad at all. My family and I were out in about 15 minutes. The poll workers were fast and professional. The longest line was something like P-Z and they didn't have to wait long either. BZ to VA Beach for making voting painless and easy.

Have at it beachdog

Your comments just prove that the sound of your own voice (or rather your own typing) is what matters most to you --not the facts. It will all be over soon, thank God.

lots of stupid voters

I just called my cousin in Ohio and asked her to let me know when she gets that huge tax check from Obama...because that was the reason they voted for this socialist. Hide your money...if you can.

What is VB doing......

All other cities are at 80-90% and VB is hanging at 44% reporting...thats why Virginia hasn't been called for Obama yet.

Robm

When they use that money to purchase goods and services that keep YOUR business open, and you continuing to get a paycheck, maybe youll thank them.

The poor and middle class make the economy go around, not the rich. Sooner you figure that out, the sooner youll see that giving the lower classes more discretionary money is how you dig out of an economic mess.

"giving the lower classes more discretionary money"

That's the problem with libs. They expect things to be given rather than earned. Giving money only perpetuates class warfare and does not solve the low income problem. Working at Walmart or McD's isn't going to provide you with the standard of living that you want. What people need to do is actually get an education that they can use. Not everyone needs the expensive 4 yr college. Community colleges are relatively inexpensive and can provide you with a marketable skill that pays well. High schools have programs votech programs to teach skills that pay well. Dropping out of school and whining about how much you don't have is you're own fault, not the "rich" guys. The "rich" guys provide the jobs if you have the skills.

SteveH

There is already TOO many people with college degrees and marketable skills. The rich man wants to pay as little as he possibly can, for the most skill that he can, and we are subsidizing him by obtaining skills at our own cost. In my field (accounting and finance), its routine for businesses to want a bachelors degree, and a CPA certification for jobs paying around $15 an hour or less. Who can live on $15 an hour and pay for student loans around here? Theyll still get someone to do it, because there are about 3 accounting openings and about 600 applicants for every one job opening in the area. I have a degree, and have been in the field 5 years, and STILL dont even make the average US wage. The only thing we are all doing by going to college is driving the prevailing wage for our "skills" in to the dirt, and burdening ourselves with huge debt. How long before it takes a PHD to get a $7.50 an hour job flipping burgers?

Coolguy

Part of having a marketable skill is having one that is in demand. If in your profession, there are 500 people vying for 3 positions, you really don’t have a marketable skill. And because there is a huge disparity between supply and demand, the employer will rightly pay the lowest he can to fill the skills he needs. I have skills in electronics, human resources, management, and workforce education. My AAS pays more than my BS and both pay much more than your $15/hr because they are skills in demand.
When you decided on your degree choice, how much research did you do on the pay, demand for this location, and future earnings potential? That is the mistake that most people make when choosing a career field. They don’t do their homework.

Steve

You are completely missing my point. At some point in time there will no longer be demand for ANY skilled position. Accountants, Engineers, Welders, blah blah, it is not region specific. Our economy (nationwide) is primarily constructed of low skilled service labor, and that is not going to change no matter how many skilled people colleges churn out, regardless if there is some fluctuating micro demand for a particuliar skill based on city or region. The only thing that is going to change is the prevailing wage for the few skilled jobs, which will be driven in to the dirt. You are already seeing people holding bachelors degrees working behind the counter of your local McDonalds. This simply did not happen 20 years ago.

Point isn't missed

We will just have to disagree. You go ahead and believe that things will only get worse. I will continue to believe that if people research career fields and take course work heavy in math and sciences, that they will find plenty of high paying jobs and that those high paying jobs will not disappear. Our society is becoming more complex and the need for people with complex skills and knowledge will only increase. Our schools are doing a poor job of educating kids in these fields and they are not preparing them for college. The result is readily apparent when companies have to go outside our borders to fill highly technical and high paying jobs.

Going out side the borders

There are countless engineers and scientists who are unemployed or who have been laid off. Companies are going outside of the borders to fill the positions because an engineer from India will work for half of what an engineer from the US will. In many cases, the US worker was laid off or forced to train his foreign replacement. Just check any tech boards. That becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as no students want to pursue those fields any longer for fear of being in a career where they are laid off every other year. As for you assertation that an endless stream of highly skilled jobs are going to continue to be created, thats bunk. At no point in the near future are McDonalds jobs going to be replaced by electrical engineer jobs. Further more, why should a person be forced to continuously pay for their own training chasing the "flavor of the month" job in a particuliar region to find out when they graduate, there is no longer any demand?

well then

Rather than complaining and painting a picture of dire straits, what is your solution?

Also, I never said that McD jobs would be replaced by engineering jobs. What I assert is that people who don't apply themselves and make themselves valuable to the employers that require high skilled jobs will necessarily be relegated to the low income, low skill, McD type jobs. My company deals with the installation of radiation oncology equipment and the help wanted list is extensive. Any electrical/electronics engineer with a degree OR experience has a job if they want it - anywhere in the country and they'll make 4x what you said you're making. This country will not be relegated to PHD's working at McD no matter what you say.

Steve

So, you feel that, if 1 million people went to school to be electrical engineers right now, that they all would have a job installing oncology equipment? Of course they wouldnt. Maybe a few hundred would get jobs, the rest would.....work at McDonalds? This country churns out something like a million college graduates a year. Do you really think the economy is creating a million new jobs requiring college education, in ANY fields? No, its not. In fact, a huge majority of the jobs are very low skilled. As I said, it doesnt matter that some demand for educated people isnt filled, the fact is, on a whole, there are already more educated people then there are jobs for educated people. Even if the educated lined up ideally with demand for them, there would STILL be people with degrees working at McDonalds. That is fact.

Coolguy

I don't think I heard a solution from you.

My solution

My solution is, and has always been, merit based free education at all public four year colleges, and slots limited by the federal government, but how the slots are filled will be determined by the state to preserve the prestige of certain state universities. Obviously, under the guise of capitalism, its impossible to control which way the demand for workers goes, however, it IS possible to control the supply of those workers. That way, who ever gets stuck working at McDonalds, at least wont have wasted 20k or more and 4 years or more in a college education, poor kids will have the ability to go to school without joining the service, and those who do get the slots at colleges will be rewarded with very large salaries. Community colleges will still be availabe for cost to McJob workers who wish to try to get additional shots at four year slots by improving their grades. The federal government would follow the economy very closely and adjust slots and programs based on it.

Scary solution

Interesting solution but one that I think would only perpetuate class warfare and discrimination. I guess you are also saying that those who are “rewarded with very large salaries” are then also going to be the people who will fuel the economy with very large taxes. How do you determine who has merit and who determines it? How do you determine who gets what job? Where is the competition for a job when quotas are being filled – especially if a person is a poor performer? Do you promote protectionism with jobs from foreigners? If so, how do you promote the influx of people of superior intellect? Quite frankly, your solution is so full of holes that it would be easily dismissed. 750 characters prevent me from dissecting this further.

Steve

The net effect of my plan would take money from the super wealthy, and raise the pay of lower-middle income white collar and skilled blue collar professionals who are increasingly losing purchasing power, and erase the unneccessary debt load for the excess people not needed for skilled jobs. The government would set up federal mandates on merit, and it would probably be some combination of high school grades and service to the community. Jobs would probably be determined either by aptitude, or highest merit students get first choice. There wouldnt be ANY competition for jobs, because that is the problem in the first place which is driving wages to the ground. We are currently subsidizing employers by taking on the cost of our own training, while simutaneously driving our wages down by adding yet another skilled person to the labor pool.

Simply amazing

This country’s basic promise is freedom and that freedom includes the choice for an individual to pursue their own career, change careers, and make the most of their opportunities. Your plan takes away this freedom and puts it in the hands of the government. Quite frankly, your plan is un-American and it is simply amazing that you believe it to be sound. This lack of freedom in your plan would cement this country in mediocrity, stifle innovation, and relegate it to a third world status. I could easily write a very detailed paper that would convince any reader just how dangerous and flawed your idea is. However, I suspect that people reading these posts probably don’t need to be convinced.

Steve

First thing, people are not "free" in this country, they are in a constant state of economic duress that FORCES them to do things that they wouldnt choose if they truely were free. This includes taking on huge loads of debt in the hopes that they can get a slightly better job, and many never see that job, because there simply arent good jobs out there for every one. I fail to see how setting supply of labor is going to stifle innovation. Controlling the supply of labor would not restrict people from starting their own companies, or inventing things themselves. The difference is that the companies would be competing for labor, rather then the labor competing for jobs. I also would love to see how this country would become a third world status country by taking steps to ensure the survival of the middle class in a post industrial based service economy. I doubt you can present any empirical, or sound theoretical evidence or data supporting this.

Coolguy

You can’t see the flaws in your plan because you’ve convinced yourself that it would easily work and that people would be content with the choices made for them by govt.

Name a country that has a society like you propose.

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